Atlantic Terminal question

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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Frank
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Atlantic Terminal question

Post by Frank »

I heard that the speed limit in Atlantic Terminal is now 5 mph. Is this speed limit recent or was it always 5 mph?
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452 Card
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Re: Atlantic Terminal question

Post by 452 Card »

Its been 5 mph as far as I know forever, due to the curves in the station and the switches placed in risky locations.
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Head-end View
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Re: Atlantic Terminal question

Post by Head-end View »

And very close clearances, right?

Kelly&Kelly
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Re: Atlantic Terminal question

Post by Kelly&Kelly »

Clearances are indeed tight. In the years prior to the M-1's only MP-54s could go to Brooklyn. This gave the oldest cars to branches that traveled mostly to Brooklyn, like Far Rockaway. When it became apparent that the M-1s would be the only cars available, several of the structural walls in BROOK Interlocking were chiseled away to make the necessary clearance for the longer cars.

nyandw
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Re: Atlantic Terminal question

Post by nyandw »

Perhaps this 1908 map illustrates the issue!
Image
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/flatbu ... rd-IRT.jpg

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JamesRR
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Re: Atlantic Terminal question

Post by JamesRR »

Kelly&Kelly wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:28 pm
Clearances are indeed tight. In the years prior to the M-1's only MP-54s could go to Brooklyn. This gave the oldest cars to branches that traveled mostly to Brooklyn, like Far Rockaway. When it became apparent that the M-1s would be the only cars available, several of the structural walls in BROOK Interlocking were chiseled away to make the necessary clearance for the longer cars.
Has any more work been done in the tunnels to make them clearance-friendly for 85' cars? Or are those chiseled walls likely still as they were from decades ago?

Kelly&Kelly
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Re: Atlantic Terminal question

Post by Kelly&Kelly »

The tunnels were fine, they are essentially straight. The clearance work was done on the curves just east of the platforms, in the vicinity of the old (1995) Yardmasters' office and the "new" BROOK tower. It was done with jackhammers and is still quite visible.

Pensyfan19
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Re: Atlantic Terminal question

Post by Pensyfan19 »

nyandw wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:14 pm
Perhaps this 1908 map illustrates the issue!
Image
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/flatbu ... rd-IRT.jpg
Another question: Since Atlantic Terminal currently has 6 active tracks, are tracks 7 through 14 abandoned or still accessible within the station or tunnels? Also, does the removeable platform on track 6 still exist?
"Look down, step over, and watch the gap!" - Dr. John Clarke, the Gap Rap, 2010

Sorry in advance if you do not agree with my opinion.

Backshophoss
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Re: Atlantic Terminal question

Post by Backshophoss »

It will always be "Flatbush Ave" Atlantic Terminal never made sense. Brook and Van interlockings are in need of a" Penn Station" style rebuild.
Since LIRR is thinking about isolating the Atlantic Branch.,NYCTA might provide the Equipment.
That Subway "connection" is long abandoned.
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BuddR32
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Re: Atlantic Terminal question

Post by BuddR32 »

Pensyfan19 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:24 pm
nyandw wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:14 pm
Perhaps this 1908 map illustrates the issue!
Image
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/flatbu ... rd-IRT.jpg
Another question: Since Atlantic Terminal currently has 6 active tracks, are tracks 7 through 14 abandoned or still accessible within the station or tunnels? Also, does the removeable platform on track 6 still exist?
Those tracks are long gone, as are the approaches and all. It is now the basement for the Atlantic Terminal Mall, or whatever it is called,

Kelly&Kelly
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Re: Atlantic Terminal question

Post by Kelly&Kelly »

Those tracks, called the EX Terminal, lay abandoned for many decades and were removed with the latest remodeling. They were home to hundreds of cat-sized rodents, homeless who would bravely cohabitate with them and tons of garage and junk. It was a wet, dismal and filthy place. The entire terminal (and much of the branch) was a neglected and crime-ridden morass in the 70's and 80's.

MACTRAXX
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Re: Atlantic Terminal question

Post by MACTRAXX »

Everyone: I looked at the May 25, 1970 ETT that I keep for LIRR historical reference -
On Page 372 in the section on maximum speeds I found this Atlantic Branch speed information:

ALL TRACKS FLATBUSH AVENUE STATION AND BROOK INTERLOCKING 5 MPH.

Between Brook and 1000 feet east of East New York: 45 MPH; EXCEPT first curve east of Van to reverse curve east of Nostrand Avenue: 30 MPH.

1000 feet east of East New York to Dunton Tower: 80 MPH; Dunton and Jay: 45 MPH.

Atlantic Branch (Page 10)
Flatbush Avenue (Atlantic Terminal) Mile 0.0
Brook 0.1
Van 0.6
Nostrand Avenue 1.6
East New York 4.0
Woodhaven (closed) 7.2
Dunton 8.7
Jay 9.0 and Jamaica 9.3

I recall reading that there had to be platform modifications to handle the larger 85 foot cars...
Did this include having to increase the platform heights that were used with the older
and shorter MU cars?

MACTRAXX
EXPRESS TRAIN TO NEW YORK PENN STATION-NO JAMAICA ON THIS TRAIN-PLEASE STAND CLEAR OF THE CLOSING TRAIN DOORS

Kelly&Kelly
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Re: Atlantic Terminal question

Post by Kelly&Kelly »

The platform hights in Flatbush avenue were not changed; the station always had high level platforms that are consistent with the subway. The old MP41 cars were narrower and had sliding vestibule traps to permit their operation at high level subway platforms, high LIRR platforms, and of course low level platforms.

Flatbush Avenue's platforms became a problem when M-1 cars with quarter doors replaced the long MP-70 cars with end vestibules. The gap between the M-1 doors at quarter points and the platform was enormous on some curves. Special Instructions were issued in the timetable from time to time as people fell through the gaps to handle these situations.
Last edited by Kelly&Kelly on Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Andrew Saucci
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Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:57 pm

Re: Atlantic Terminal question

Post by Andrew Saucci »

Pensyfan19 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:24 pm
nyandw wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:14 pm
Perhaps this 1908 map illustrates the issue!
Image
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/flatbu ... rd-IRT.jpg
Another question: Since Atlantic Terminal currently has 6 active tracks, are tracks 7 through 14 abandoned or still accessible within the station or tunnels? Also, does the removeable platform on track 6 still exist?
I believe that track 1 in the 1908 map is gone, and tracks 2-7 are current tracks 1-6. All three current platforms are island platforms. I doubt that the removable platform still exists as it has no use. The track connection was severed long ago.

fender52
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Location: Long Island

Re: Atlantic Terminal question

Post by fender52 »

Track one was gone back in the mid 70's. I remember that there was a mock-up of a M-1 bar car there for years.

The old EX yards tracks were there going into the late 70's or early 80's. The furnace for the terminal was back there and every so often you had to go back and re-start it in the winter. Some of the elevators to the meat markets back there still worked and there an area we called the farm where all the Civil Defense supplies were stored and left to rot. That's another story.

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