Rockaway Beach Line Reactivation One-Seat Ride to JFK

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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Long Island 7285

Post by Long Island 7285 » Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:48 pm

Thanks Jay and JJ.

So I guess it was not that complicated running the loop.

And it's pretty much streight foward from Zone 1(NYP) - Zone 4(VS) then it become another train from (VS) Zone 4 - (FBA) Zone 1

So for passengers staying for the long and many stop one seater to FBA Via Valley Stream would most likely pay just for a Zone 1-1 ticket, but if they got off inbetween thats how the RR would get cought off guard. Maybe it was something like a VIA ticket? if they had something to that effect.

Form 19

Post by Form 19 » Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:05 am

In the late 60's when the MTA came into being, they proposed rebuilding and reopening the Branch for service to JFK. The opposition at the time was that the LIRR wanted a higher fare JFK only service and the locals wanted local service. But most of all, the reason it did not open was that the MTA wanted the Port Authority to pay for the rebuilding and subsidize the service if need be. The Port Authority took a fit because the MTA was making statements in the media of their plan but never consulted the PA about it.

It's all in the newspapers of the time.

I remember a time when the LIRR Signal and Electric Traction Depts used to cannabalize parts from the Branch.

Trains haven't run down there since 1962. I doubt today it will happen.

JJ, the run sheets differentiated between "Motorman" and "Engineer" because contractually, an Engineer was entitled to a Fireman and a Motorman wasn't.

See Shawn your right, we are Motormen!!


Post by dukeoq » Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:04 am

I doubt very much if the RR would sell a ticket from NYP to FBA.
The ticket wouls more than likely be NYP to Valley Stream with another ticket to travel west.

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Post by jacksons » Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:34 pm

This is something that should have been done in 1962, then we wouldn't be hearing all the bs now. Just take a look at the branch from "Google Earth" and you'll see it's a no brainer, it goes straight to JFK. It's amaizing, you can see the platforms at Ozone Park and the Atlantic Avenue connection clear as day. It makes alot more sense that "AirSham" "the Canadian railway living in Queens". :wink:

Long Island 7285

Post by Long Island 7285 » Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:57 pm

Sence is something that is no part of living on long island, if they were able to save say 1.6 million on the project of the airtrain plus the jamaica improvement, and just build a air shuttle from Howard beach to JFK then all other service would be Via LIRR from howard beach west to NYP. then jamaica would have not needed nothing more then a facelift/ upgrade, instead of the crap that you see there now. Howard beach could have been done up nicely and several stops between there and woodside, but logistics and knowlege of rail transporation, along existing and former LIRR Lines are non existant on Long Island, that's Valley - OB is only a dream as Pt Jeff to Wadeing river and maybe Riverhead, and a East end scoot from Green port to Montauk is only a pipe dream no rail logistics on LI and too much money and people like thoes in cedarhurst that think they can tell a RR that's been there 100 years to pack up and get out.

If you want more LIRR. vote in dictator ship in state office. "under dictator ship Trains run on time" in othe words with a pro rail powerfull governer, you may just see it. Tell them all to shut up and take it like a man.

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    Post by Sir Ray » Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:51 pm

    jacksons wrote:This is something that should have been done in 1962, then we wouldn't be hearing all the bs now
    Heh, there were a lot of great ideas from the 1960s (and some not so great ones) which should have been done - I'm sure Nimbykiller would have liked 'the loop' which used a rebuilt Central branch to head out to Bethpage, and then return via Hicksville Mainline (probably on S Berliners page). Yeah, the Rockaway branch to JFK was a no brainer, but for many reasons (which are really no reason at all) it didn't happen.

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    Post by jacksons » Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:50 am

    Seems to me that there is a little to much "buff bickering" going on here and not enough logical thought exchange.

    "Sence is something that is no part of living on long island"

    BINGO ! Thank you 7285. It's all about the money/politics or politics/money. Poor planning gets what poor planning deserves, no trains, the LIE and ugly strip malls. :wink:

    Long Island 7285

    Post by Long Island 7285 » Sat Mar 25, 2006 11:18 am

    I finally got something right :-D

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    Post by GP38 » Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:39 pm

    Long Island 7285 wrote: from what this man told me was the LIRR placed poison ivy and prickley bushes along the row upon abandonment to keep (our kind) and locals from playing on the ROW, along with the LIRRs creative gardening skills nature did a lot on it's own adding weeds and trees and more brush.
    Oh please. Yes, there is poison ivy and wild rose prickly bushes, but they grow naturally, it's nothing the LIRR put there. That's just silly. Leave any vacant land abandoned for 40 years, and poison ivy will grow on it. Birds eat poison ivy berries (not harmful to them), and whey they, well you know, the seeds get planted THAT's how the poison ivy and prickly bushes got there. Totally naturally.
    would the LIRR re gain rights to rockaway park and rockaway? I know the LOOP can never be re installed but would they re gain where the A train is now?
    The part south of Howard Beach is completely useless as an LIRR line. Those stations are among the least used in the subway system, and that's at subway headways. Forget about LIRR headways, the ridership will drop even more. That part of the line is best served by the subway. In fact, the rest of the line is also best served by the suwway to Liverty Ave. The LIRR could run down the old line, stopping at perhaps the old Parkside station location (Metropolitan Ave), and Woodhaven, and Brooklyn Manor (Jamaica Ave). Then run down the center tracks, and terminate at Howard Beach. The subway could still use the outer tracks south of Liberty Ave.

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    Post by BMT » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:53 pm

    Long Ilsand 7285: You are correct....when the deal was done between the LIRR and NYCTA back in '55(?), it gave NYCTA the Rockaway Branch all the way up to Whitepot Junction. The reason was due to the fact that the original plan was to tie the Queens Blvd. subway line into the Rocakway branch at the point closest to that line which would be 63rd Drive. There is actually a tunnel bell-mouth just outside the station on the F train.


    Post by dukeoq » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:57 pm

    A little bit of urban legand, here.
    Not long after the deal was done and the last LIRR train ran on June 5, 1962, the LIRR sent a work train onto the now "Out of service" Ozone secondary--as it had been called once the subway had cut in at Liberty Ave.

    Charlie,the conductor on the job was the senior man on the extra list with a good forty years behind him.
    Once clear of the main, there wasn't much for a conductor to do except watch the track gang set about removing rails and putting them onto LIRR gons to be taken back to Holban Yard.
    After awhile, several police officers converged upon the scene.
    "Who's in charge here" a transit cop asked.
    "I am" replied Charlie.
    "You're under arrest for stealing NY City Transit Authority property" (the rails)

    Anybody know the rest of the story?
    I had heard back then that the conductor was indeed arrested for entering his train into railroad that was no longer LIRR but NYCTA.

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    Rockaway Question?

    Post by railfaned » Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:09 pm

    As a kid in the 1953-56 timeframe, my parents would take me to Rockaway by taking an express bus service that ran from the Woodside LIRR station to Rockaway Playland and Rockaway Park. At that time I couldn't understand why we would bus to rockaway when we left from a LIRR station and arrived at a LIRR station. I know now about the bridge fires and the TA taking over the line. My question to all the LIRR oldtimers is, was the service put in place after the bridge fire, or was it part of NYC's plot to put the LIRR out of Rockaway in favor of the TA??? I know Rockaway really changed from a summer community after the subway takeover.
    40 year commuter-railfan and model railroader,
    Ex-Long Islander

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    Re: Rockaway Question?

    Post by pennsy » Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:13 pm

    Do you remember the DOUBLE carfare ? At that time it was two tokens to get on in the Rockaways, and one to get off.

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    Re: Rockaway Question?

    Post by LongIslandTool » Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:40 pm

    Triboro Coach Company operated the Woodside-Rockaway line as long back as the early '40's or late '30's. The company was owned by the Cooper family who also owned Green Bus and Jamaica Bus lines.
    The Long Island Tool
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    ...a "tool" of the administration"

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    Re: Rockaway Question?

    Post by R36 Combine Coach » Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:23 pm

    This bus still remains as the Q53 (MTA Bus).
    Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.

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