Rockaway Beach Line Reactivation One-Seat Ride to JFK

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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NIMBYkiller
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Location: Port Washington

Post by NIMBYkiller » Mon May 02, 2005 9:34 pm

An express bus route would be horrible. Just use Woodhaven Blvd.
LIRR service will never start on that line again, and subway service is a pretty far shot too.

I'd like to see light rail on it, running from Howard Beach to the 59th st trolley terminal in Manhattan. It'd run via the ROW and Queens Blvd, with it's own ROW for the entire trip except maybe over the 59th St bridge.

mwichten
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Location: Smithtown, NY

The Rockaway Subcommittee of the Regional Rail Working Group

Post by mwichten » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:09 pm

Anyone ever heard of this?



The Rockaway Subcommittee of the Regional Rail Working Group advocates the reactivation of the LIRR Rockaway Beach Line in Central Queens. This disused line is a critical asset that could be brought to life to provide speedier access to Midtown, Manhattan for residents of Rego Park, Forest Hills, Woodhaven / Richmond Hill, Ozone Park, Howard Beach, Broad Channel and the Rockaways. Its reactivation would also permit a fast, one-seat ride between Penn Station and Kennedy Airport. With the advent of the AirTrain as well as the substantial residential growth of these neighborhoods, this unused resource could become a vital link to the region's future to serving airport passengers and employees and local commuters.

This page is specifically for the LIRR Rockaway Branch
http://www.rrwg.org/rockaway.htm

This is their main web page
http://www.rrwg.org/index.html

Nester
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Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:54 am
Location: Beacon NY US

Post by Nester » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:35 pm

I've never heard of the group, but I like the idea of reactivation.

Seriously though, these people don't know much about how all of this works...
A track connection to the AirTrain would be built just north of Howard Beach. A fleet of LIRR-compatible rail cars would be acquired, which could also operate on AirTrain tracks reaching the six stations at air terminals
The only thing the same is the track gauge. Even the clearances aren't the same.... forget about signals, operating rules, speeds, etc.
As part of the overall Penn Station Metro-Hub plan city MetroCards would be accepted for LIRR travel in NYC, including for travel to and from Kennedy Airport.
How do you swipe a MetroCard when the fare collection "device" is a human being on a rolling piece of steel? We aren't even close to this point with the technology.

Where the rail line is on an embankment, slopes would be landscaped and made available to residents and community groups for gardens and open space.
Are they for real? You don't want people gardening and having parties so close to the ROW... It's too noisy and too dangerous.

---

At the risk of sounding like Mr. Weaver, these people are dreaming. I love the hand-drawn map, though :-D

robertwa
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Location: Garden City South

Post by robertwa » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:38 pm

Nimbykiller must be behind this :-D

Dave Keller
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Location: Orlando, FL

Post by Dave Keller » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:56 pm

Bob:

The FIRST thought that went through my head as I read it!

"Only the names have been changed to protect the innocent!"

Dave

RRChef
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Location: Long Island, New York

Post by RRChef » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:02 pm

Where the rail line is on an embankment, slopes would be landscaped and made available to residents and community groups for gardens and open space.
Are they for real? You don't want people gardening and having parties so close to the ROW... It's too noisy and too dangerous.

Well. parties might not be the best thing, but the gardens work. There are a few along LIRR tracks now, especially along the Mainline west of Jamaica.One comes to mind in Kew Gardens that is very close to the tracks.

I have never heard of this group. Unfortunately they are a silent minority when it comes to the Rockaway Branch. The opposition has lots of political clout behind them. I don't see this geting very far.
Don't strain your brain, paint a train.....

Long Island 7285

Post by Long Island 7285 » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:18 pm

MI know some one whos back yard is the Rockaway branch some where between metropolitian ave yelllowstone blvd. and yes the imbankment is steep there and yes his yard could be extended back another 10-20 feet with out much problem. The only thing is once the embankment is about 4' from the ground it's too steep to really do anything with, from what this man told me was the LIRR placed poison ivy and prickley bushes along the row upon abandonment to keep (our kind) and locals from playing on the ROW, along with the LIRRs creative gardening skills nature did a lot on it's own adding weeds and trees and more brush.

If for argument sake the ROW re vitalized, ALL trees on the ROW it' self will need to come down and track will need to be re lade and more. On the other hand, if any trees are removed from the sides (embankment it's self) it will weeken the integraty of the soil which has not been look at sence the closure of the branch.

I can think of stations for that branch and it will only help in the ability of the air train. EX. NY bound people can take a ride from JFK to Howard beach and take LIRR to PENN and LI bound people take it to Jamaica for points east.

Several stations can be added to the rock to get people into NYP, including the re opening of the (Woodhaven?) over Atlantic Ave. Reason, it will be direct to NYP whereas the Atlantic branch is a subway to NYP. all I can say is that re opening the rock for a commuter line through southern Queens and Brooklyn would be worthwhile.

Can any one add that if this ever got off the ground. would the LIRR re gain rights to rockaway park and rockaway? I know the LOOP can never be re installed but would they re gain where the A train is now?

Nester
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Location: Beacon NY US

Post by Nester » Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:35 pm

RRChef wrote:Well. parties might not be the best thing, but the gardens work. There are a few along LIRR tracks now, especially along the Mainline west of Jamaica.One comes to mind in Kew Gardens that is very close to the tracks.
The one in Kew Gardens isn't on an embankment. More importantly, I am not certain that the LIRR owns that land. Do you know for sure?

Long Island 7285

Post by Long Island 7285 » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:32 am

I'm lead to beleive that when LIRR abandoned the branch they sold the full branch from rockaway to whitepot to the NYCTA. so if that is true. the LIRR would have to buy back that branch from the TA and the rebuild it. If it were to happen, I say that rebuilding should be done in 3 sections, the southern section working north, the northenr section tyeing into the main and rebuilding white pot and head south and then a middle division working from the center both north and south, adventually meating the other to work teams. but it's no where near that yet, so let's not all go crazy.

I think that if that map be worked on and re drawn to be brough to reality, and some things worked out, and freight options added (if there is any places that can receive these days.) and make the branch sound reasonable.

dukeoq

Post by dukeoq » Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:07 pm

RRChef wrote:Well. parties might not be the best thing, but the gardens work. There are a few along LIRR tracks now, especially along the Mainline west of Jamaica.One comes to mind in Kew Gardens that is very close to the tracks.
Nester wrote: The one in Kew Gardens isn't on an embankment. More importantly, I am not certain that the LIRR owns that land. Do you know for sure?


From 1975 to 2004 I lived 2 blocks from that garden.
I'm sure that it was on railroad property, since it was on the track side of the railroads fence. The gardener lived across the street and had put in a gate which he kept locked at all times. I think that the railroad just looked the other way in his case.

7285---As for freight on the old Rockaway branch, the only place with a siding was a (smoking) pipe factory at Park Lane South.
No one smokes a pipe anymore and the building has been made into condos.
The team yard at Rockaway Blvd. has been built on and Mercagliano Lumber at that location is no more, having moved in with Ozone Park Lbr a few blocks east.
Yes, the same Oz Lumber at Richmond Hill serviced by NY&A.

Long Island 7285

Post by Long Island 7285 » Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:29 pm

theres a home depot off metropolitian ave that may be able to get lumber via rail then again why woudl the coorporation go to rail. I say if any thing I would like to see it re built with a few stations stratagiclly placed along the branch. In the long run it would be bennifical to have that option, even if the "loop" is never re instated.

How did charging customers on the "loop" trains work, If you were getting on in Penn to go to say east new york via the loop. and the train leave penn and goes via rockaway to valley then atlantic to FBA.

your going from zone 1-zone 1 via zones 3 & 4. So how did a ride like that work for the paying customer.

dukeoq

Post by dukeoq » Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:48 pm

7285 states;
theres a home depot off metropolitian ave that may be able to get lumber via rail

Home Depot is at a location that has rail buried beneath the asphalt.
GE had a warehouse there and was serviced from #1 Montauk and not from the Glendale Cutoff embankment.
I think that you have answered your own question about why would the corperation go to rail?

dukeoq

Post by dukeoq » Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:03 pm

Long Island 7285 wrote:
How did charging customers on the "loop" trains work, If you were getting on in Penn to go to say east new york via the loop. and the train leave penn and goes via rockaway to valley then atlantic to FBA.

your going from zone 1-zone 1 via zones 3 & 4. So how did a ride like that work for the paying customer.
I don't believe there is anyone around who remembers, but I do have a run sheet from 1919 that describes such a trip for the crew.
They run a train to Valley Stream via Far Rockaway and at Valley Stream the train number goes from even number, signifying eastbound, to odd number, signifying westbound.
The fare was most likely figured from NYP to Valley Stream and another fare from Valley Stream to FBA.

Oh! And for any engineers reading this, the crew sheet called for a Motorman, Conductor, etc. :wink:
Steam jobs called for Enginemen.

jayrmli
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Location: Moriches, NY

Post by jayrmli » Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:20 pm

If a company like Home Depot were to take shipments via rail, it wouldn't be at a siding near one of their buildings. Possibly the empty space on the other side of the cutoff would be more reasonable, where they would be able to take massive amounts of cars and then transload it to their stores.

Jay

dukeoq

Post by dukeoq » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:02 pm

Then again, I doubt it would be in Queens with traffic on Metropolitan Ave, etc.
Someplace a bit further out, but not Queens.

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