Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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EuroStar
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Post by EuroStar » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:02 am

Running trains to event venues does not seem to be a winning proposition in general unless the station has other ridership. NJT is certainly losing money any time they run shuttles to the Meadowlands. I believe the same is true for the MBTA and the shuttles to Foxboro on the game/event dates. I do not know for sure, but I suspect that LIRR loses money on the Belmont shuttles too. Barclays Center is at a station with large non-event ridership, so it is different as is MSG. While no public transportation agency makes profit in the US (and I do not claim that they should), providing an occasional money losing service to event venues is not the core mission of any such agency. These are all vanity projects targeted to appease a few politicians and their donors. Same will be true for any passenger facility at the Hudson Yards. From public policy perspective these projects are a waste of scarce capital and operating funds.

andrewjw
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Post by andrewjw » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:21 pm

CentralValleyRail wrote:Good, most of the people who attend that convention are pretty weird. It's a convention of social rejects. Saw them walking thru Secaucus and it was like WTF are you kidding me? Yeah sure you have a few hotties mixed in but wow just wow.
😬 are you kidding me? these people literally went to a convention to be social with each other. Can you be less judgemental? Also, "hotties" really shows how much you're focused on objectifying the women going to these events 😬😬😬.

ConstanceR46
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Post by ConstanceR46 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:30 pm

Good, most of the people who attend that convention are pretty weird. It's a convention of social rejects. Saw them walking thru Secaucus and it was like WTF are you kidding me? Yeah sure you have a few hotties mixed in but wow just wow.
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John_Perkowski
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Post by John_Perkowski » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:35 pm

ADMIN NOTE
Thread closed until Frank can do cleanup
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Jeff Smith
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Post by Jeff Smith » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:38 am

Okay, let's keep it to the possibility of the platform, not the appearance of Comic Con fans. No harm, no foul, move on please.
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ConstanceR46
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Post by ConstanceR46 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:30 pm

On the topic; there is absolutely no way that they'd allow a cleaning platform to be used for boarding.

andegold
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Post by andegold » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:17 am

EuroStar wrote:Running trains to event venues does not seem to be a winning proposition in general unless the station has other ridership. NJT is certainly losing money any time they run shuttles to the Meadowlands. I believe the same is true for the MBTA and the shuttles to Foxboro on the game/event dates. I do not know for sure, but I suspect that LIRR loses money on the Belmont shuttles too. Barclays Center is at a station with large non-event ridership, so it is different as is MSG. While no public transportation agency makes profit in the US (and I do not claim that they should), providing an occasional money losing service to event venues is not the core mission of any such agency. These are all vanity projects targeted to appease a few politicians and their donors. Same will be true for any passenger facility at the Hudson Yards. From public policy perspective these projects are a waste of scarce capital and operating funds.

Other than the fact that even with fare gates not all fares are collected for Meadowlands trains why do you say that NJT is "certainly losing money"? They only run trains for events at the stadium with expected attendance in excess of 50,000 (I recall hearing the number 70,000 but I don't know for certain). Any time I have ever used the service it has been standing room only and still a much better option for me than driving would have been. The 7 train to Mets-Willets Point is similarly packed for all Mets games regardless of attendance which leads me to believe that their core base is as much or more transit riders as drivers. I don't know what the LIRR service to mets games is like.

Liquidcamphor
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Post by Liquidcamphor » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:02 pm

Let's keep the conversation civil and without attacking other people's thoughts and ideas, just because you disagree with them. Otherwise, threads with interesting topics will be locked and that takes away intent of this Board.

EuroStar
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Post by EuroStar » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:48 am

andegold wrote:Other than the fact that even with fare gates not all fares are collected for Meadowlands trains why do you say that NJT is "certainly losing money"? They only run trains for events at the stadium with expected attendance in excess of 50,000 (I recall hearing the number 70,000 but I don't know for certain). Any time I have ever used the service it has been standing room only and still a much better option for me than driving would have been. The 7 train to Mets-Willets Point is similarly packed for all Mets games regardless of attendance which leads me to believe that their core base is as much or more transit riders as drivers. I don't know what the LIRR service to mets games is like.
The tickets do the Meadowlands get canceled when the passengers pass through the fare gates (I am sure some have found a way around it, but those are probably the few bad apples that are always guaranteed to exist), so the need to collect them is less clear. NJT loses money on the shuttles because the total fares collected do not cover the wages/benefits earned by the employees operating those trains and the extra employees needed to direct the crowds at Secaucus. The trains might be well utilized as you have observed, but that does not mean that they pay for themselves. NJT is still in effect subsidizing the private venue operators by providing below cost transportation to the fans.

BuddR32
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Post by BuddR32 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:06 am

EuroStar wrote:NJT is still in effect subsidizing the private venue operators by providing below cost transportation to the fans.
That’s one perspective. Not one I agree with however. NJT is providing a below cost service to a public ridership that is utilizing public transportation, keeping some cars off the road. Which is why states took on the money losing business of moving people.

ExCon90
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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Post by ExCon90 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:00 pm

Still, given the stadiums that get built for them with public funds, the team owners could afford to kick in something to NJT -- just build it into the ticket price and let all the spectators make their contribution in that way. :wink:

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Re: Passenger Boarding at Hudson Yards during Javits Events?

Post by Jeff Smith » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:19 am

Interesting stuff... is there a topic in the NJT forum that deals with Meadowlands service and cost? If you want me to split that out, I can.
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