LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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thrdkilr

Post by thrdkilr » Sun May 30, 2004 12:47 pm

Greetings Nimby,
Believe me, I would love to see the central come back. When I was a wee lad, they took the 3rd rails up from the central east of Washington, I got my little green wagon and went and got me some of the parts (insulators, brackets...) and took them home, was going to build me my own LIRR. I knew every inch of the central from Nassau Blvd., east.
It just doesn't seem practical. The central parrallels the main by just a couple of miles until past the park (Eisenhower), so were talking basically of a spur for Levittown & East Meadow, and to relieve main line traffic.
I take the hit on speed for the main line, I thought I remember hearing something about grade crossing slowing things down, but they do need to be removed for other reasons, and incorporating that in with adding the 3rd line would seem to be cost effective.
If you start at Stewart Manor (and you would have to if your talking the central) your talking 14 grade crossings (Stewart manor, Coven Ave, Nassau Blvd, Hilton Ave, Cathedral Ave, Washington Ave, Clinton Ave, South St, Mitchell Field Rd ?, Endo Blvd, Meadowbrook Pkw, Merrick). Nimby, didn't you throw in the Mineola to Hempstead Crossing too? Thats 3 more crossings.
How about this wacky idea, extend the PW line into the Oyster Bay and Port Jeff. lines, doing away with them connecting into the main. How much traffic would that take off the main? Hell, would you even need it any more? I know, ugly, shame on me, talking like a bean counter....

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Post by NIMBYkiller » Sun May 30, 2004 10:21 pm

JoeLIRR:

Elevating the line would be too much money. And besides, if the NIMBYs are gonna whine about having at grade tracks, it'll be even harder to convince them to have a big elevated structure behind their property. I really don't think it's worth it. The only road that needs a bridge over it is the Meadowbrook Parkway, and MAYBE Newbridge Rd, but I doubt it.


thrdklr:

Yeah, it parallels the main only by a few miles, but so does the Hempstead line, and look at its ridership. And yeah, the main towns served would be Levitown and East Meadow, but it would also serve even more of Garden City, the Nassau Hub, NCC, and the park. It'd be 2 extra tracks with a whole new service area(I'm willing to bet the majority of those residents that would use the new line currently drive to work rather than to the main or bablyon lines and commute via them).

What other reasons do they need to be removed for? B/c people are too impatient and get hit every now and then? Anyone seen going past the down gates needs to be fined atleast $500. I'm not saying patroll every crossing, but if they're seen by a cop who happens to be in the area, fine them. Traffic? The only reason there is traffic is b/c everyone drives. Improve the rail and bus systems and get more cars off the road. That way there is less traffic.

I thought you meant new grade crossings on the central. As you know, the central starts east of Garden City station, at Franklin Av. So there's the 1st one. Then Washington, Clinton, Quentin, Selfridge, Endo. From there, yeah, there are quite a few grade crossings til B tower. Still, it's no reason to keep from reopening the line.


About that PW to PJ line thing, that was actually the original plan. Flushing and Northside wanted to extend from Great Neck, along what's now 25A to the Syosset station of the PW line, with a track connection to the OB line. Also, at OB, the tracks were to extended to meet the PJ at Syosset as well. I think before it could happen, LIRR bought the RR and then sent the line to PW. On top of that, the PJ line was supposed to be extended to the main line at Riverhead. It would've created a north shore line. Imagine this:

Express train to Greenport, making stops at Flushing, Great Neck, North Roslyn(Wheatly Hills), Syosset, Huntington, Smithtown, Stony Brook, Port Jefferson, Wading River, Riverhead, Greenport. Transfer at Great Neck for the local train to Port Washington making stops at Manhasset, Plandome and Port Washington. Transfer at Great Neck for the local train to Huntington making stops at Manhasset, Americana Mall, North Roslyn(Wheatly Hills), NYIT, CW Post, East Norwich, Syosset, Cold Spring Harbor, Huntington..................that would really be something.

Before I even knew this, I mapped out a rail line from Manhasset to Syosset, which turned out to be almost exactly like the formerly proposed one. Am I the reincarnation of a former RR prez? lol.

thrdkilr

Post by thrdkilr » Sun May 30, 2004 11:05 pm

Nimby, if it is possible for a railroad to have a soul, then you are the LIRR's. How about this for a compromise of ideas, reactivate the central, but instead of going through the park, hang a left (south) at Meadowbrook, then follow that down to the southern line, or down to the Southern State, go east to Wantagh, south to the southern line. This gets rid of all the ROW, NIMBY, and grade crossing issues. You would also get bigger seperaton from the main, and bring service to that whole pocket of towns south of the park. It would destroy Robert Moses idea of the aesthetic Parkway drive, but lets face it, todays commuters are not into Sunday drives in their Packard roadsters on simulated country roads...

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Post by Nasadowsk » Sun May 30, 2004 11:24 pm

Grade crossing elimination improves traffic flow, and costs less in the long term. Train gates aren't free, they also aren't free to maintain. They require monthly inspection, lots of expensive equipment, and oh yes - break. IIRC, a new crossing gate system costs on the order of 1/2 a million dollars these days to install, and quite a few thousand to maintain. They'll also need to be replaced every few years cause they wear out, especially on a line where there's frequent traffic. on the LIRR, I think it also entails a few extra impeadence bonds, which means even more cost.

Also, grade crossing accidents aren't free either - revenue's lost from delays and cancellations, equipment costs money to repair, etc etc etc.

The NHP / Mineola crossings are the busiest in the US, by far. I can see arguments against eliminating something like out at Riverhead, but at Mineola, there's really no argument to keep the crossings in place. The LIRR would have dumped them long ago if the stupid villiage in the area didn't insist on dropping the tracks underground (darn near impossible in that area).

Elevating the Central, much in the form of the Babylon line near Lindenhurst, would surely be an interesting sight, and likey, if made out of prefab/precast sections, go up fast and cheaper. And, you could stuff the substations under the trackage, and signal boxen, which would help out, too. With modern noise abatement techniques, and all electric operation (IMHO it would be the ONLY way to see any Central reactivation anyway, given the housing density along the line, Eisenhower park, and the fact that as a diesel only line, it would be a useless shortcut to the Ronkonkoma line and Montauk branch, which would serve ZERO purpose), noise could be kept very low, even with a high MAS.

I could see:

* (maybe) Grade level until the Meadowbrook, then raising to a concrete causeway until near the Ronkonkoma line.

*Hempstead line upgraded for 80mph operation.

Stops at:

* NCC/Hofstra
* Roosevelt field (via a LONG moving walkway?)
* Eisenhower Park
* Somewhere on the other side in Levvitown
* Wantaugh Ave (? - west of 107 - call it Island Trees)
* Somewhere east of 107.

30 min headways, 80mph operation, all electric, no freight.

The last two are for a simple reason - noise abatement. It makes selling the line to the surrounding communities easier. Any proposal will have considerable opposition (at least in Levvitown and island Tress and the area), but a no grade crossing, all electric, no freight line, it will be quiter by far. Meaning 'out of sight, out of mind'.

You could shift at least some Ronkonkoma traffic to it, and it would be able to act as an 'alternative route' if there's a clog up on the main. Imagine that there's a 'police action' at Mineola, and instead of your train being delayed 45 - an hour, you get rerouted and get there 5 min late. It makes a difference.

****
Oh yes. Another idea? How about a park and ride facility at the old Cerro Wire site? This would be a 2 - 4 track terminal, exit ramps right off the LIE, and parking for maybe 5,000 or more cars, and service every 15 min all day long. This would not only provide an easy access alternative to people stuck in traffic (easiest way to sell rail? Get someone out of traffic and into a train.), it would solve one of the annoying problems of transit on LI (noteably, rail stations aren't really near the LIE), it would help cut traffic in the Hicksville area, and oh yes, reduce traffic in Queens and western Nassau on the LIE. And I'm being pessimistic on parking for 5,000 cars. I bet you could easily overflow that size of a lot if you offered frequent service all day.

Why do I think this would work? I did in California on Bart - drove to an outlying station (though it wasn't as easy access), parked, and got a train in. The key, though, is frequency - you can't have the train on a schedule, you need to have it at least 3 or 4 times an hour (or more). This way - you advertise with a sign "Trains every 10 minutes 6am - 9am, every 15 minutes 9am - 5pm, every 10 minutes 5pm - 8pm, every 20 minutes 8pm - 12am".

When the train is frequent, people don't have to think about it, they can just use it. You can't expect people to plan their lives around the service.

JoeLIRR

Post by JoeLIRR » Mon May 31, 2004 12:25 am

With one big ass compromise I think that grade crossing elimination, and the re opening of the crr will be able to work out.

the bigest issue to over come is the NIMBYS then the cost. Caus if u have the money up front in cash n the NIMBYS go aganst it the $$ wount matter.

Step one is to Sweet talk the NIMBYS into a rail network. and it gota look and sound real good, almost be deceving :wink:

if they play their cards right it just may happen..

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Post by NIMBYkiller » Mon May 31, 2004 12:36 am

Thrdklr:

"reactivate the central, but instead of going through the park, hang a left (south) at Meadowbrook, then follow that down to the southern line, or down to the Southern State, go east to Wantagh, south to the southern line. This gets rid of all the ROW, NIMBY, and grade crossing issues. You would also get bigger seperaton from the main, and bring service to that whole pocket of towns south of the park."

The point of reactivatin the central is to run it on the old ROW. Going south would really serve no major purpose. The ROW for to Bethpage is there and clear, and it would serve towns not served by the RR. It makes perfect sense.


Nasadowsk:
Yeah, it improves traffic flow, but so does people getting onto public transportation. You've got me pretty close to sold though now on maybe having one or even 2 crossings eliminated, cuz I never thought bout the crossing maintenance fee. I'd assume a bridge costs more to maintain though.

As for accidents. Like I said before, anyone that caused the accident needs to pay for all damages, including revenue loss. No mercy. You screw up the RR and we'll screw you up, that's our policy, lol.

As for the central, I still stand by keeping it diesel, with midday freight(no freight while residents are at home usually). Still, the only roads that shouldn't be grade crossings are the parkways/highways and bewbridge rd. That's it, the rest should be grade crossings.

I'm hoping that the central can be more of a line where Montauk and Greenport diesels can travel, make stops, and terminate at Jamaica or LIC.

Hempstead line upgrade would be nice(anyone know the MAS on the hempstead now?).

new stops could be at Clinton Rd, Quentin Roosevelt BLVD, NCC, Eisenhower Park, Newbridge Rd, Rt 107, Bethpage Jct, then montauk trains would run South Farmingdale, Breslau, Babylon, all stops to PD.

The Roosevelt Field Mall can be served by another one of my lines, which runs from Hempstead to Northport Village via the old spur off the secondary, new track to westbury, and the old northport spur. The Roosevelt Field Mall stop would be where the tracks cross Zeckendorf, with a shuttle bus running to different points around the mall, including the bus terminal.

I like your Cerro idea. Where is it exactly? Is it near the old Landia station, cuz I wanted to reopen that. Now, trains every 10 min aint happenin, you and I both know it. On the service I designed, I was thinking more like every 20 min rush hour, every 40 min off peak weekdays, ever 30 min weekends.

People have been planning their lives around schedules since the begining of LI. While I admit, frequent service is good to have, LIRR can't handle it. I think ever 20 minutes is pretty good.

thrdkilr

Post by thrdkilr » Mon May 31, 2004 3:24 pm

What is the ROW like on the eastern side of Eisenhower Park, how many miles from the park to where it joins up with main (Bethpage Tower?)? The only future I see for the LIRR is for it to become like the NY subways, way faster of course! As urban areas sprawl and become interconnected roads will become simply to inefficient. The LIRR is now basically a east-west operation, it needs to become omnidirectional, people will need to get from Lindenhurst to Northport to work at the Macdonalds, and the LIRR can't provide this service as far as cost, and time (what would be the cost in money and time to go to Jamaica and back out?), at this point. Does bringing back the old central facilitate omnidirectional service? Using the Parkways is the only way I see increasing north-south routes for the LIRR, there is no way they could go out and buy new ROW and it would be political suicide to pull a emanate domain kind of thing....

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Just a fantasy!

Post by Head-end View » Mon May 31, 2004 8:20 pm

Guys, you've cited lots of good reasons and good plans for reactivating the Central Branch. But face it: it's just a fantasy. There is NO WAY, given the current political and social climate, that you're going to bisect Eisenhower Park or the Levittown community with a railroad. It ain't gonna happen. You could sell an elevated viaduct to Mineola, before the residents of central Nassau County would allow the Central Branch to be reactivated. But it really is a great dream! :(

Nimby: the Cerro Wire property is located right by the old Landia Station at the Robbins Lane crossing in Syosset. You can read in Newsday that the Town of Oyster Bay is fighting a developer that wants to build a mall there.

BTW Phil, that's a good idea for the Cerro Wire property; I seem to think I've heard it somewhere before though.............. :wink:

And what BART station did you ride from? I rode that whole system 2 years ago; parked in the huge deck at Colma; the airport extension was still under construction.

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Post by Nasadowsk » Mon May 31, 2004 9:54 pm

Head End - The Cerro idea's better than the stupid mid PJ line train dumping ground (whoops, YARD) that the LIRR wants now. But (unlike Nimby), I think the key is real frequent service, which I think the LIRR can handle just fine.

Repeat after me:
<b>The LIRR is not METRA, and METRA is not that great.</b>

Frequent service is what makes the Babylon line, main west of Hicksville, etc so great. You just show up. It's super convienient.

When the train is 'always there', something neat happens - people use it a LOT more.

If I wanted a slow, infrequent, smelly, noisy commuter system? I'd move to Chicago or California.

IIRC, the station we used was El Cerrato Del Norte, or something along those lines. It was cool doing 70mph in the curves on the elevated :)

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A little of everything

Post by Head-end View » Tue Jun 01, 2004 3:49 pm

Nas: What's wrong with the idea of a yard near Port Jeff? They have them at Ronkmonkoma and Babylon, don't they?

Never been to Chicago so can't comment on Metra.

Probably the reason BART and WMATA can run frequent trains is that being rapid transit systems, not commuter railroads, they have different fare collection systems and can run with one employee per train. (AND windows up front at least on WMATA, not BART though)

Agreed it's only a technical/legal difference between the types of railroads. There really is little effective difference between an electric rapid-transit train and an electric MU commuter train. It's regrettable that politics stands in the way of progress.

If LIRR/MTA ever got serious about running the kind of service you suggest, maybe they could have 2 person crews; the extra conductors could be trained as engineers for the increased number of trains running, so no one would lose their jobs.

BTW, do you remember several years back, the LIRR wanted to better balance the service on all lines, so they were going to reduce train frequency somewhat on the Babylon line to provide increased service on the main line, and the people on the South Shore protested loud enough that the plan was abandoned. That sort of proves your case!

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Post by NIMBYkiller » Tue Jun 01, 2004 4:19 pm

thrdklr:
The ROW east of Eisenhower is curently a LIPA power ROW, so it's almost all clear. I agree that LIRR needs to start more north-south service, like re-opening the OB-Mineola-CLP-WH-Valley Stream line and extend it to Far Rockaway. Yeah, right now, going to Jamaica then backtracking is a real pain. You might like my nassau-suffolk rail link system. Basically, the scenario you pointed out, lindenhurst to Northport, can be covered in a few ways. Breslau to Hicksville, Hicksville to Northport Village or Lindenhurst to KO, KO to Northport
No, the central doesn't run north-south, but east-west service for intra-island travel is still important. The route I have in mind is Hempstead to Mac Arthur Airport. There are a few ROWs that LIRR can use for north-south runs. Mineola-CLP-WH is still 95% clear. The other former LIRR ROW that is still clear is Manorville-Eastport. Just go around the game farm. I also picked out 2 new ROWs that seem fairly clear.
1. From Islip, tracks go north along SSP to NYIT, then north to connect to old Central Islip pysh spur, follows to Main line. Stops at NYIT
2. From PJ line just west of Smithtown, goes south into Caleb Smith State Park, then along Vets highway to the main line. Stops at the park and Hauppauge.


Head end: They've already got LIPA lines using the ROW. I had a feeling Cerro would be at the LIRR tracks. It makes so much sense to open up the Landia station again at that site and use it as a Park and Ride. I've actually talked with the developer. He is the most stubborn jack... in the world. It's supposed to be just like the Americana, which is rich people heaven, and #1 on my list of things I'd love to burn down(I know, Garden City should be, but this mall is so friggin annoying).


Nasadosk: Are you kidding me? I'm a big supporter of frequent service. Where the hell do you get off saying something like that? When I say frequent, I mean 20 minutes, not every 5 minutes. Yeah, maybe the main line west of Jamaica, or even from Hicksville, but not the entire damn system.

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Post by Nasadowsk » Tue Jun 01, 2004 6:59 pm

<i>Nas: What's wrong with the idea of a yard near Port Jeff? They have them at Ronkmonkoma and Babylon, don't they? </i>

Yes, but why not just stick it at PJ, instead of mid line? Really, the LIRR simply cannot make a very good (or good at all) case for a mid line yard. Ok, the shuffle at Huntington isn't ideal, but it's worked just fine for decades. If there's capacity needed, Port Jefferson has plenty of yard. of course, this would require electrification, but let's face it, the PJ line needs it anyway, and there's be little (if any) opposition - certainly, residents beyond Huntington will welcome the drop in noise that MUs will bring.

<i>Never been to Chicago so can't comment on Metra. </i>

Imagine a DE-30 pulling 12 cars, imagine cramped equipment, slow boarding, non level boarding, unairconditioned vestibules, slow service. Oh yeah, Randolph street's a worse dump than Penn. At least the on board people are nice. But having ridden Metra, after hearing from friends how great it supposedly was, I was really dissapointed, it's no better than LIRR diesel service was before the new fleet arrived. Ok, a bit cleaner ;)

<i>Agreed it's only a technical/legal difference between the types of railroads. There really is little effective difference between an electric rapid-transit train and an electric MU commuter train. It's regrettable that politics stands in the way of progress. </i>

It's solely politics. IMHO, it's partly because people don't want to let go of the 'commuter' tagname, and refuse to admit that heavy rail transit can infact work in a suburban setting. Also, for some stupid reason, there's a resistance to the 'transitization' of 'commuter' lines. Which explains a LOT of the SVM's opposition in Philly, not to mention the general Septa complainfest that goes on. Which is stupid because at least some of Septa should in fact be LRT, not heavy rail.

Anyway...

Could the LIRR work as 'suburban rapid transit'? IMHO, with a few modifications, it could, and would be quite sucessful at it. If you've ever seen Babylon line stations durring the day, the already do attract a significant off peak ridership, and ditto for the main line. With the density of east of Hicksville growing fast, it's only natural to at least try the same thing farther out. Even some commuter surveys have shown that there's a call for this in the public.

<i>
If LIRR/MTA ever got serious about running the kind of service you suggest, maybe they could have 2 person crews; the extra conductors could be trained as engineers for the increased number of trains running, so no one would lose their jobs. </i>

The scenario I'd see would be for the engineer to be an engineer/conductor (which, I believe under the existing LIRR ruleset is actually allowed), and leave the engineer to operate the doors in addition to the train (yes, i know there's nobody watching durring departure - this is a problem, admittingly), and leave the other person to be whatever the heck the extras are called on the train, plus brakeman (well, someone would still have to protect the rear of the train, right?)

Actually, does the LIRR already run 2 person crews?

Nimby - IMHO, the Babylon, Ronkonkoma lines should be running 15 min headways at the most, and the PJ line, once electrified to PJ, should run 1/2 hour from PJ and 1/2 from Huntington (think of the NH line staggering - i.e., the PJ would run express from Huntington, but hit Hicksville). This would be mid-day. If you had a P&R at Cerro, bingo, there's your 4 trains an hour off peak. 2 from Huntington, 2 from PJ. Peak, you might need a few dedicated trains, i.e., you'd have 'Park and Ride' service durring the rush hour, and off peak, you'd just have the trains that stop there along their route.

Look - the equipment's very expensive, and if it's sitting in a yard, it's using electricity and not moving passengers. It needs an FRA inspection regularly regardless of it's use. The track needs it regardless of use too.

The idea is simple - by running extra trains, you not only attract more riders, but you get better use of equipment that would otherwise not do ANYTHING. Airlines do this too - they rarely idle planes, and when they do, they park them out in a desert. And it's simple for them too, an airliner loses money every second it's on the ground. It's only making money by moving people. They can barely stay afloat doing this - they'd all die in a heartbeat if they made as poor utilization of equipment as most commuter agencies in the US do (though the LIRR's at least somewhat better - IIRC, 1/4 of the fuel Tri-Rail's equipment burns is wasted simply powering equipment as it sits idle in the yard)

Oh yes, Mineola to CLP isn't going to happen - the ROW was built over long ago (ironically, one part is an AAA parking lot). I don't think the LIRR even owns it anymore.

The Cerro developer being a jack... ? Not surprising. IMHO, the LAST thing the area needs is yet another mall. Oh yes, and please aim the dynamite more towards Great neck. I darn near get killed every time I go through that area by some jerk in a UAV (urban assault vehicle).

IMHO, a Cerro Park & Ride is the best use of that property, and really ideal. It's sad NY state as a whole can't get it's act together :(

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Electric trains, Malls, Park & Ride

Post by Head-end View » Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:47 pm

Nas: I gotta give you credit; you are very observant & creative in your thinking. I guess you didn't ride Metra's Electric Division, runs south from Randolph St. on the former Illinois Central, Gulf. That line is supposed to be pretty sharp. I've seen video of it. They have bi-level MU's, running short consists, like 2 cars at mid-day; I don't know about the frequency of service.

BTW, if you're ever in the Boston area, check out the Quincy-Adams station on the MBTA Red Line. It has those direct ramps from the Interstate highway into the pkg. deck. Right-on.

NIMBY: You've actually spoken to the Cerro site developer? How did you happen to do that? I'm sure he is a jack. Also, be careful what you say here. You don't want to be talkin' about "burning things down" even in jest. You could get your "self" in a sling that way. But I share some of your sentiments about the more affluent people of the Island's population.

You guys are right; we sure don't need another mall in the Jericho-Syosset area. But my guess is the residents over there would probably oppose the idea of a railroad station/parking deck just as much as they don't want a mall, even if the transit facility would benefit them.
They already prevented the State from building continuous service roads on the Long Is. Expwy in that area. But then being the kind of people NIMBY spoke of, they'd probably oppose a fire station in their neighborhood too. Chuckle!

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Post by Nasadowsk » Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:53 pm

I rode the electric, too. It's not a BAD service, but:

* Straight line track, 70mph. That's so 1950 of them.
* Stations litterally within shouting distance at a few points. And they stop at both.
* Metra doesn't seem to understand the concept of 'express' and 'local' tracks, instead running trains on both tracks stopping at the same stops.
* Ding ding ding. It's the bell on the train annoying the heck out of you while it pulls in at 10mph.
* Equipment that was no nicer than the M-1s, but did sometimes accelerate a tad faster.
* No cab signals. Apparently, they didn't learn much from their wreck in the 70's.

I've ridden the MBTA commuter lines and found them to generally be better, but still slow as &%^&. They seriously need to buy a few ALP-46s for Providence/Attleboro line, the diesels are a sad joke along there, not even really hitting track speed between stops, and then, only 80mph, on a line where the limit is 100+ in many places.

I rode the Lowell line years ago (Early 90's - was right after Amtrak took over) and it was by far nicer than the LIRR's diesel services of the time.

I find Metra ironic though, the CTA was actually quite good in many regards. In any case, I found Chicago's commuter service to a big dissapointment. Whatever happened to the E units the LIRR borrowed from Metra in the 90's anyway? I recall reading on the old board they couldn't 'cut it' on the LIRR...

Oh yeah, and hey guys, can we post some more? ;) The NJ Rail forum's catching up! I was kinda hoping we could overtake Amtrak sometime this month....

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Post by NIMBYkiller » Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:32 pm

Nasadowsk:
"this would require electrification, but let's face it, the PJ line needs it anyway"

How so? I don't see a real need for it. Once ESA and the 3rd track are in, there will be so much more free space to run trains direct to NYP. I say LIRR holds off on any further electrification, finishes ESA and the 3rd track, then they'll realize they don't need the electrification, atleast not at that point.

"non level boarding"

I thought Metra was level boarding. Don't they have those cars with the doors on the lower level for the low platforms?

"Could the LIRR work as 'suburban rapid transit'? IMHO, with a few modifications, it could, and would be quite sucessful at it. If you've ever seen Babylon line stations durring the day, the already do attract a significant off peak ridership, and ditto for the main line. With the density of east of Hicksville growing fast, it's only natural to at least try the same thing farther out. Even some commuter surveys have shown that there's a call for this in the public. "

I would love to see LIRR create an intra-island network. However, I don't think it'd do them too well to run it every few minutes. I think 15-20 minute headways would be fine for it.

"IMHO, the Babylon, Ronkonkoma lines should be running 15 min headways "

If ridership is really as much as you say it is(I know the KO line was packed last time I rode during rush hour, SRO), then yeah, 15 minute headways would be good for peak headways on those lines.

PJ line can already run 1/2 hr headways if they'd combine some of the electrics from huntington with the diesels from PJ. Then they'd have trains running mostly all stops to huntington, then non stop to hicksville, some would stop at Cerro. After Hicksville, Mineola, Jamaica, then NYP.

"you'd have 'Park and Ride' service durring the rush hour"

IDK, I think it'd be smart to have those originate at Huntington. Either that or have it run from Cerro and make every stop to Jamaica, then i don't know what from Jamaica, either all stops to Flatbush or non-stop to NYP.

I get what you mean about LIRR having trains waisting time at yards and what not, but doesn't it cost even more money to run them? I'd love to see more intra-island service, but face it, LIRR is too busy on their one track mind, shuttling people to/from NYC. I really think there needs to be either another division of the MTA or a whole other RR that'd work with LIRR to use their tracks for intra-island service.

"Oh yes, Mineola to CLP isn't going to happen - the ROW was built over long ago (ironically, one part is an AAA parking lot). I don't think the LIRR even owns it anymore. "

The only thing blocking that ROw is a building at Mineola. Either way, the line would have to go underground, b/c even I'll admit that Old Country Road can not have a grade crossing. The rest of the ROW is totally clear. Some is just a driveway, other parts are a dirt path, and the rest is unused parking lots(like the AAA lot). I've walked this ROW a few times now.

"The Cerro developer being a jack... ? Not surprising. IMHO, the LAST thing the area needs is yet another mall. Oh yes, and please aim the dynamite more towards Great neck. I darn near get killed every time I go through that area by some jerk in a UAV (urban assault vehicle). "

Manhasset is even worse. Yuppies galore.

"IMHO, a Cerro Park & Ride is the best use of that property, and really ideal. It's sad NY state as a whole can't get it's act together "

As much as I don't really like park and rides b/c they promote auto use in some form, I agree this really needs to be built. It's a prime location(right off the Long Island non-Expressway) on a line with decent service. I wouldn't be suprised though if LIRR hasn't even considered this. Someone should send them something.


Head end:

"You've actually spoken to the Cerro site developer? How did you happen to do that?"

The News12 chat forum. He was spewin crap about a mall at Cerro, expanding Walt Whitman, etc, etc, all for yuppie stores. We already got one yuppie mall that I would like to see shut down, don't give me any others.

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