Woodland Pulp LLC/St Croix Tissue

Discussion of present-day CM&Q operations, as well as discussion of predecessors Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway (MMA) and Bangor & Aroostook Railroad (BAR).

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carchecker
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Woodland Pulp LLC/St Croix Tissue

Post by carchecker » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:21 pm

I was told by a NBSR employee that they will be hauling tissue from the mill in Baileyville shortly. Apparently in order to secure the deal Irving is going to buy wdpulp from Woodland Pulp LLC to ship to their new tissue plant in Georgia. CMQ had put in a bid to ship tissue by truck to a CMQ transload facility and they would transport it from there. Is there anyone out there "in the know" about this or is it pure rumour and speculation?

fromway
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Re: Woodland Pulp LLC/St Croix Tissue

Post by fromway » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:37 pm

If its true, who will the NBSR hand off to?

JB283
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Re: Woodland Pulp LLC/St Croix Tissue

Post by JB283 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:47 pm

I'm guessing PAR to NS or CSX which would not have to change hands again depending on who has track access at the end point. If I was a betting man i would say CSX.

JB283
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Re: Woodland Pulp LLC/St Croix Tissue

Post by JB283 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:48 pm

Or to CN which could get it all the way to Mobile AL, hand off to CSX for delivery.

gokeefe
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Re: Woodland Pulp LLC/St Croix Tissue

Post by gokeefe » Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:40 pm

There are some indications of further expansion ... Possibly two additional tissue machines ...
gokeefe

carchecker
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Re: Woodland Pulp LLC/St Croix Tissue

Post by carchecker » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:37 am

I have also heard that from someone in the wood supply business.

gokeefe
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Re: Woodland Pulp LLC/St Croix Tissue

Post by gokeefe » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:49 am

I'm fascinated by the idea that the wood supply is so vast out there that they can support this expansion. Not surprising given Lincoln's closure perhaps ...

I guess this could also just be use of excess pulp supply.
gokeefe

carchecker
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Re: Woodland Pulp LLC/St Croix Tissue

Post by carchecker » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:46 am

It helps Woodland when the supply chain comes from both sides of the border.

Cowford
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Re: Woodland Pulp LLC/St Croix Tissue

Post by Cowford » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:18 pm

I was told by a NBSR employee that they will be hauling tissue from the mill in Baileyville shortly. Apparently in order to secure the deal Irving is going to buy wdpulp from Woodland Pulp LLC to ship to their new tissue plant in Georgia. CMQ had put in a bid to ship tissue by truck to a CMQ transload facility and they would transport it from there.
I don't quite get how Irving is part of this deal with Woodland Pulp. So pulp is going to move from Baileyville to Irving's new tissue mill in Macon, GA? Where will Woodland Pulp will be shipping tissue?

carchecker
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Re: Woodland Pulp LLC/St Croix Tissue

Post by carchecker » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:13 pm

It doesn't sound like the tissue will begin moving until this summer. Woodpulp has already been moving quite a bit and the Baileyville mill has just said they plan to ship over 100 more carloads between now and the end of the month.

gokeefe
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Re: Woodland Pulp LLC/St Croix Tissue

Post by gokeefe » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:37 pm

That is a major increase in rail car volume for that mill. If the destination is Macon, GA, Pan Am is almost certainly one of the carriers ... If so that also implies significant new volume for MAWA/WAMA or whatever the Mattawamkeag job is these days.
gokeefe

CN9634
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Re: Woodland Pulp LLC/St Croix Tissue

Post by CN9634 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:43 pm

gokeefe wrote:That is a major increase in rail car volume for that mill. If the destination is Macon, GA, Pan Am is almost certainly one of the carriers ... If so that also implies significant new volume for MAWA/WAMA or whatever the Mattawamkeag job is these days.

50 carloads a week if that holds true... so 7ish carloads per 7 day week, say 10 per business day. Surely a nice contribution but let’s not over hype here. A major increase would be an entire trainload not carloads in the eyes of the induatry.

roberttosh
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Re: Woodland Pulp LLC/St Croix Tissue

Post by roberttosh » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:29 pm

Not many opportunities up that way where you're realistically going to add entire trainloads of new business. If the Keag job runs 3 days per week, this amounts to an additional 15-20 cars per train, which in the grand scheme of things sure seems pretty significant to me.

oibu
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Re: Woodland Pulp LLC/St Croix Tissue

Post by oibu » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:40 am

Yes, even "back in the good old days" very few individual mills ever supported their own full train other than whatever local(s) served them.

10 cars a day of outbound finished product is a pretty substantial volume, probably roughly on par with what Woodland was shipping (again in terms of outbound finished product) back in the 70s or so.

CN9634
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Re: Woodland Pulp LLC/St Croix Tissue

Post by CN9634 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:19 pm

oibu wrote:Yes, even "back in the good old days" very few individual mills ever supported their own full train other than whatever local(s) served them.

10 cars a day of outbound finished product is a pretty substantial volume, probably roughly on par with what Woodland was shipping (again in terms of outbound finished product) back in the 70s or so.
Their footprint now compared to what it was is substantially different. Remember they put in new tissue machines and bolstered the pulp capacity, so in terms of railable quantities there is a lot more that could go for certain, but majority ships breakbulk via Eastport to overseas markets as of today.

A lot of mills produce trainloads when you consider the balance of inbound raw material to outbound product, examples are Sappi , Verso / ND paper. The Irving traffic is split between CMQ, ST and CN, so you'll sometimes see large bursts go either direct but nothing cohesively on just one line. Twin Rivers ships most outbound via CMQ, but inbound materials comes in through CN and their pulp side is in Canada connected via pipeline to the US paper side (an interesting setup).

The wildcard out there is Lake Utopia who ships a lot of transload / intermodal off CN in NB, but has no direct rail access.

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