P32AC-DM in nyp

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fl9fan300
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P32AC-DM in nyp

Post by fl9fan300 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:32 am

How does Amtrak operate nec trains with only one P32AC-DM through penn station when the lirr needs two DM30-AC to prevent gapping issues with the third rail? And If the third rail in penn station is over-running then how does the P32AC-DM operate in metro north territory where the third rail is under-running?

ThirdRail7
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Re: P32AC-DM in nyp

Post by ThirdRail7 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:17 am

fl9fan300 wrote:How does Amtrak operate nec trains with only one P32AC-DM through penn station when the lirr needs two DM30-AC to prevent gapping issues with the third rail? And If the third rail in penn station is over-running then how does the P32AC-DM operate in metro north territory where the third rail is under-running?
I don't think LIRR runs two of them into because of third rail issues. I believe it has more to do with the length of the train. If memory serves, once the consist exceeds 5 or 6 cars, they run two for power.

As for the Amtrak P-32s, they operate in diesel mode on Metro-North. They only use third rail in the New York Terminal district.
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DutchRailnut
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Re: P32AC-DM in nyp

Post by DutchRailnut » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:55 am

The P32acdm is always on lead so engineer can see the third rail.
The LIRR operates push pull, and if the engine were not in lead, there would be no way for engineer to see or feel the third rail and gap the train.
hence requirement for LIRR to always run with a engine on each end of train in NYP.
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Tadman
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Re: P32AC-DM in nyp

Post by Tadman » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:03 am

How does that work for Metro North when their dual-mode P32s are in push mode?

JimBoylan
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Re: P32AC-DM in nyp

Post by JimBoylan » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:50 am

Does Metro North still use the overhead 3rd rail in Grand Central with these locomotives?

DutchRailnut
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Re: P32AC-DM in nyp

Post by DutchRailnut » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:26 pm

no there is no overhead third rail left, it was al removed a few years back, last engines to use it were niagra switchers (E10b's)
GCT is relatively flat and if a train gaps out the diesel is still running in push mode.
the north end of NYP has no ventilation its pure tunnel, yet GCT and park avenue tunnel have plenty of airvents, so no problem.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Amtrak7
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Re: P32AC-DM in nyp

Post by Amtrak7 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:48 pm

ThirdRail7 wrote:I don't think LIRR runs two of them into because of third rail issues. I believe it has more to do with the length of the train. If memory serves, once the consist exceeds 5 or 6 cars, they run two for power.

As for the Amtrak P-32s, they operate in diesel mode on Metro-North. They only use third rail in the New York Terminal district.
I've seen LIRR 6 car-1 engine trains: they don't ride very well and are relatively slow. Therefore there aren't that many of them.

Can the over running shoe run in under running territory and vice versa? (not drawing power)

hi55us
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Re: P32AC-DM in nyp

Post by hi55us » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:27 pm

Amtrak7 wrote:
Can the over running shoe run in under running territory and vice versa? (not drawing power)
Nope, they can't, that's why you'll never see an Amtrak P32 DM running into GCT without Metro North tied on.

Bobinchesco
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Re: P32AC-DM in nyp

Post by Bobinchesco » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:14 pm

Empire Connection rule 47-E2 DC OPERATION RESTRICTED NORTH OF MP 5
Trains must not operate north of MP 5 with third rail shoes in lowered position, unless otherwise instructed.

There is a Third Rail Shoe Detector that indicates in PSCC if a train fails to retract third rail shoes.

Amtrak7
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Re: P32AC-DM in nyp

Post by Amtrak7 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:35 pm

Oh so the shoes are actually physically retracted! I thought they were just electrically disconnected when the engine was in diesel mode.

ThirdRail7
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Re: P32AC-DM in nyp

Post by ThirdRail7 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:38 pm

Bobinchesco wrote:Empire Connection rule 47-E2 DC OPERATION RESTRICTED NORTH OF MP 5
Trains must not operate north of MP 5 with third rail shoes in lowered position, unless otherwise instructed.

There is a Third Rail Shoe Detector that indicates in PSCC if a train fails to retract third rail shoes.

That was kind of a random use of a special instruction. How does this relate to the topic?
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fl9fan300
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Re: P32AC-DM in nyp

Post by fl9fan300 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:45 pm

I was also wondering how the shoe designed for over-running worked in under-running territory, I didn't know that it can physically retract either. ... and I always thought that lirr used two dm30s so that one of them would always be touching the third rail not so the engineer can just see the third rail not given the fact that they're obviously needed as muscle to pull 6+ cars......why would amtrak even bother with them if the only place they use the third rail there's over head catenary wire? why not a dual mode with over head catenary capabilities?

ThirdRail7
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Re: P32AC-DM in nyp

Post by ThirdRail7 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:54 pm

fl9fan300 wrote:I was also wondering how the shoe designed for over-running worked in under-running territory, I didn't know that it can physically retract either. ... and I always thought that lirr used two dm30s so that one of them would always be touching the third rail not so the engineer can just see the third rail not given the fact that they're obviously needed as muscle to pull 6+ cars......why would amtrak even bother with them if the only place they use the third rail there's over head catenary wire? why not a dual mode with over head catenary capabilities?
At the time of purchase, no one was making engines that ran under wire and in diesel mode. Who knows what will happen when the P32s need replacing.

Amtrak7 wrote:Oh so the shoes are actually physically retracted! I thought they were just electrically disconnected when the engine was in diesel mode.

They raise and lower. Anyway, this conversation has occurred before and someone was nice enough to post a picture of the raised third rail shoe of a P32 and what Dutchrailnut described as a " shoe beam of a bombardier M7 shoe beam and mech on a MNCR M7 car."

Amtrak's P32's 3rd rail shoes
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 46&t=26088
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Backshophoss
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Re: P32AC-DM in nyp

Post by Backshophoss » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:22 pm

Overrunning shoes would be at the same height as underrunning third rail,Underrunning shoes would be at the same height as overrunning third rail.
The shoes will breakaway when they hit any obstruction.
The FL-9's when new from the factory had moveable shoes that could work with both types of third rail,but were a pain to maintain,
PC got rid of the moveable shoes and used spring steel to hold the underrunning shoe in the right position.
All AMTK power,the shoes fold against the shoe beam,are only folded down when entering Penn station.
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