Hampton Roads/Norfolk/Newport News NE Regional Service

[bdawe]

I wasn't even thinking of New York. We're talking about a route that could link the Texas metropolises with New Orleans, Birmingham, Atlanta, Charlotte, and only then the North East Corridor, if it were structured to do so - so many of the most important cities of the South all in a fork.

While New Orleans certainly punches above it's weight as a travel destination thanks to tourism demand, if we were designing a rail system today would we really make the southern hub an urbanized area of less than a million when there's an urban area of nearly five million a relatively short way's down the tracks?

I understand that the rails go where the rails go and the logistical infrastructure is where it is, but I can't help but wonder if New Orleans is really the best place to be turning trains. I also realize we're talking about long distance trains here - not exactly key components of any transportation system and not really worth all that much trouble over. It's interesting to consider nonetheless.

[electricron]

I would agree Houston would make a better terminus for the Crescent than Dallas because you wouldn't need to split the train. Never-the-less, neither Dallas nor Houston have more than one platform available for long distance trains while New Orleans has many platforms available. Fort Worth has two platforms available for long distance trains, isn't that much better. While New Orleans may not have a population base, it still has its intercity passenger train facilities intact.

[gokeefe]

I had no idea that Newport News was scheduled to get a new transportation center with construction starting this year.

From the Newport News Daily press article:

A $38 million multi-modal transportation center in Newport News is scheduled to begin construction in 2016. The station will be able to accommodate four Amtrak trains a day and will include room for taxis, bus bays for Hampton Roads Transit and Greyhound, and 125 parking spaces, according to Kim Lee, spokeswoman for the city of Newport News.

The article is from 2014. Has this project broken ground yet?

[Matt Johnson]

I remember reading about it, but I don't know about current status. I don't get down that way much, though here's a video I just took at the recently relocated (across the tracks) and restored Lee Hall Depot in Newport News. I also remember reading about a potential bump in speed from 79 mph to 90 mph in the same article that discussed the new station, but I assume that's a maybe someday thing whenever PTC kicks in. I've seen cars almost get hit on that particular crossing in the video, where Amtrak trains do run up to 79 mph (even if the one I recorded appears a little slower). The track in the foreground is an active siding into a rock quarry. That is a dangerous intersection for sure!

[afiggatt]

I had no idea that Newport News was scheduled to get a new transportation center with construction starting this year.
.....
The article is from 2014. Has this project broken ground yet?

A general rule to use with station projects, as far I can tell, is that they rarely start construction and get completed anywhere close to the early proposed schedules. Count on delays in funding, settling on the design, coordinating with all the local government agencies, utilities, and so on. See station planning schedule, mentally add years and years to it. However, there is funding for the new station in the VDRPT Six Year Plan starting with FY2017 (which starts for VA on July 1, 2016), so much of the funding appears to be in place.

Your post got me to initiate a Google search. After a few tries, after using the proper name for the new station as the Newport News Transportation Center which helps to steer the search. Found this HRTPO powerpoint presentation from November, 2015 which has slides on the proposed design, location, and schedule (as of Nov, 2015).

The concept slide for the new station has provisions for a hotel/office structure at the site and for a future light rail line. So they are looking ahead at the long term. Will be a less isolated location and a much nicer station than the current Amshack. Two thumbs down from me for the contemporary station design option with an all glass station. It would look completely out of place.

The schedule slide has Grading, Drainage, & Utilities work starting in August, 2016; station construction contract starting in the summer of 2017; train service starting at the new station in the Fall of 2018. So the earliest for the new station is 2 and a half years from now.

[Woody]

I would agree Houston would make a better terminus for the Crescent . . .While New Orleans may not have a population base, it still has its intercity passenger train facilities intact.

And New Orleans still has connecting trains, and should get more some day.

Besides the CONO and the Crescent, it should get the CONO by another name extension to Florida, the 3-days-a-week Sunset Ltd rejiggered into a daily Sunset Shuttle by another name to Lafayette-Houston-San Antonio, and when-will-they-ever-get-around-to-it a NOL-Baton Rouge corridor. A NOL-Biloxi-Mobile corridor train has been proposed again. (It was tried twice before, but with 3 states, only 1 or 2 at a time seemed willing to pay their share, so the trains stopped.)

The CONO, unlike the Crescent, has good ridership on its southern end. Both Memphis-NOL and Jackson, MS-NOL are good markets. That patronage could grow nicely when connections come to the Gulf Coast and Texas.

As for Houston, it is only a stop on the Sunset with no connections. Even if it gets a HSR route to Dallas-Ft Worth, that station will be miles away from Amtrak's route.

San Antonio is no slouch on population, with the metro closing on 2.5 million, and nearby Austin has 2 million. Of course San Antonio connects to the Texas Eagle.

Btw. Baton Rouge does not have an Amtrak station. The CONO stops in Hammond, some miles to the east. But Baton Rouge has some 800,000 souls. Adding that to the NOL base would almost double it.

[Station Aficionado]

Well, the headline says the new station proposed for Newport News is moving forward, but the forward progress is a little hard to glimpse in the story:

A plan to build a multimodal transportation center on Bland Boulevard is moving forward, though the Planning Commission pushed back a vote on whether to support a conditional use permit after hearing nearby residents' concerns.

The 40-acre transportation center, which will feature a new Amtrak station, is planned to be built off Bland Boulevard between Warwick Boulevard and I-64.

It will also include a service facility for Amtrak, accommodate Hampton Roads Transit buses and provide connections for taxis and airport shuttles, officials said.
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After hearing the concerns, Vice Chair Mark Mulvaney made a motion for the commission to defer the matter.

"I am personally not comfortable with the information I received tonight that I completely understand the impact of what we're trying to do," said Mulvaney. "I'd like to dig in to this further."

The commission will reconsider the item at its June 1 meeting, Planning Director Sheila McAllister said. It will also require City Council approval.
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[Arlington]

According to the Virginian-Pilot (a Hampton Roads area paper) there's $768m budgeted for rail projects over the next 6 years, which would be a big increase over the $438m spent in the last decade.

Converted to yearly averages, we're talking $128m / year in the next 6 years vs $44m/year over the last 10..a tripling of the annual spend.

The article says that $660m will be spent between DC and Hampton roads on things like
- Long Bridge (over the Potomac into DC)
- Triple or Quad- tracking CSX's RF&P
- New Amtrak intermodal station in Newport News

Problem is, when I go to http://syip.virginiadot.org/Pages/allProjects.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and select "rail" (or even "public transportation" or "miscelleneous") I can't see any kind of big numbers that'd add up to half or 3/4 of a billion. Where's the project list and budget hiding?

And that leaves $100m for (one presumes) either the VA-NC HSR work or someplace on the Cardinal/Crescent/Roanoke lines, which a Tidewater paper didn't care to report on.

[Woody]

According to the Virginian-Pilot (a Hampton Roads area paper) there's $768m budgeted for rail projects over the next 6 years ...

... yearly average ... $128m / year ...a tripling of the annual spend.
... on things like
- [the present two-track] Long Bridge (over the Potomac)
- Triple or quad- tracking CSX's RF&P [line D.C.-Richmond]

And that leaves $100m for (one presumes) either the VA-NC HSR work or on the Cardinal/Crescent/Roanoke lines ...

Well, details are lacking. Still, I don't expect any problem finding ways to spend half a Billion on the Long Bridge and the tracks south to Richmond.

Missing details won't stop me from celebrating starting right now.

Of course, the Virginian-Pilot will report on the Virginia aspects of the work, which could add a few hundred thousand riders to Amtrak's totals. But let's remind ourselves that fixing the Long Bridge is not only essential to adding many more frequencies to the Virginia routes.

But also, before we can dream of the fabled Atlanta Day Train and other new Southern services, we need a bridge over the Potomac that can handle them.

Even before we get to added frequencies, we can bask in the thought of maybe taking half an hour out of the trip times of the Auto Train, the Carolinian, the Palmetto, the Silver Meteor and the Silver Star, as well as 5 or 10 minutes off the Crescent and the Cardinal's runs.

I won't pretend to know enuff to say if half an hour each way could make any noticeable difference to operating costs of those many trains. Probably not very much, but not nothing either. I will say, having just half an hour more, or less, actually, to play with when tweaking the departure and arrival times, that could be sweet. The Palmetto scheduled into Savannah a few minutes after 9 p.m. would be more popular arriving at 8:30 or so. The Carolinian getting into Charlotte at 7:40 p.m. instead of 8:12 could get you home in time to kiss your kids goodnight -- and be worth a lot.

Again the details don't matter too much. The Eastern LD services will be better when the Potomac Long Bridge chokepoint is fixed, and the D.C.-Richmond- Petersburg segment is speeded up.

So I'm really happy to see the Commonwealth committing to this level of spending over the next few years. And who knows? Virginia could have a stack of "shovel-ready" projects with environmental paperwork in order and project planning completed when the next recession hits, and Stimulus-level funding becomes available again.

[Station Aficionado]

Newport News for is working through the process of getting a new station built off Bland Blvd. At one time, they also wanted a "self service" (their words, not mine) in downtown Newport News, but I haven't seen anything about that recently.

I think their are three key pieces to the Washington-Richmond corridor:

-a new Long Bridge
-a combination of the Acca bypass & full restoration of Main St.
-upgrading the Bellwood sub

These are crucial for SEH(r)SR, as well as additional frequencies to Norfolk and on the Peninsula Sub. It will also, as Woody suggests, help the existing trains to the south. Hopefully, the money designated by the CTB will put a significant dent in those needed improvements.

[afiggatt]

Where's the project list and budget hiding?

The budget breakdowns and project titles for the draft Six Year Improvement Program (SYIP)FY2017-22 can be found as a 87 page PDF text file on this VA DPRT webpage. The proposed budgets and spending for passenger and freight rail projects are at the end of the PDF text document on pages 80 to 86. The major passenger rail projects are listed on page 84.

The layout of the SYIP line items for rail projects has been reshuffled a bit from previous years. The $132 million for ACCA yard bypass, Carson to Reams second track south of Petersburg, new crossovers was publicized a few months ago. The major new project in the budget plan allocating a total of $427 million over the next 6 years for "I-95 Corridor Improvements - Atlantic Gateway". This is what is being vaguely described as adding 3rd and 4th tracks (the 4th track being between the Long Bridge and ALX) and "expansion" of the Long Bridge. My guess is that means early engineering and pre-construction for the Long Bridge replacement which will be a major multi-year project. A more detailed public description of what the $427 million is proposed to be spent on should be available somewhere.

CSX has put on their website a description of the near term $132 million project on a Virginia Capacity Projects page. According to CSX, the 2nd track from Carson to Reams will be done in 2017 with the rest being completed in 2018. So 8 miles of the A-Line south of PTB will be doubletracked by late 2017, which will help the Silvers, Palmetto, Carolinian, AT. Then in 2018, the Acca Yard Bypass will be done.

BTW, NC submitted a TIGER grant application in 2015 to separate 2 grade crossings and double track 4 miles of the A-line from Selma to Micro. It was not selected and don't know if NC DOT submitted the application again in 2016. But with the new FASTLANE program, NC could team with CSX to submit applications to incrementally fully double track the A-line from Selma to the VA border and grade separate some of the crossings.

[Arlington]

Article from Richmond.com says VaDRPT wants to build full-highs on both sides of the existing tracks in Ashland, with provision for turning them into center-islands on a 4-tracked ROW:

[gokeefe]

Interesting. First PR fumble I've seen from DRPT.

[mtuandrew]

Article from Richmond.com says VaDRPT wants to build full-highs on both sides of the existing tracks in Ashland, with provision for turning them into center-islands on a 4-tracked ROW:

I bet CSX would love that. If VaDRPT is serious, they'd better be talking with CSX about gauntlet tracks or movable platform edges for high/wide shipments.

[Station Aficionado]

Expanding the parking lot at Staples Mill Station in Richmond will finally get underway next year:

For long-suffering travelers jostling for parking spots at the Staples Mill Amtrak station, relief is on the horizon.

The Virginia Department of Rail and Public Transportation is doubling the size of the lot, from roughly 300 spaces to about 600, and adding a second entrance to the station, which is the busiest in Virginia and in the South, officials said.

The $8.3 million expansion, which involves acquiring adjacent property, demolishing buildings and installing a traffic signal at the new Compton Road entrance to improve traffic flow, is expected to go out to bid next spring, with a year-long construction period to follow.
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