Amtrak Diner and Food Service Discussion

[Gilbert B Norman]

I think Amtrak has done a really good job recognizing they had cut too far in some areas, needed improvements in others and (I think correctly) have reduced coach priveleges which were encroaching on the exclusivity of First Class.

If anything Amtrak has actually restored value to the First Class offerring. Ironically, this actually mirrors historic practice by the railroads which (as I understand it) restricted lounge access to extra care passengers only.

Absolutely correct, Mr. O'Keefe.

From having "been there, done that", the premier trains all had separate Lounge (often operated by Pullman) facilities for First Class. The full service Dining Car with a sport jacket requirement (necktie optional), while open to Coach passengers was often buried in the Sleepers; few Coach passengers used it (pay $10 for a steak, who me?). The Western Transcontinental trains all had a separate "Café-Diner" for the Coach trade, with counter top seating. Food was prepared on board, but was often the "railroad ham sandwich" varietal. Some of these cars had distinctive motifs, such as the Northern Pacific with their Lewis and Clark Travelers' Rest car. Others like Santa Fe and Union Pacific had all the décor of an OR.

Of course, with the tank top and flip flops "dress code" prevalent on any commercial transportation today, Amtrak would be hard pressed to re-create the First Class experience I knew "back in my day".

[eolesen]

What on earth was encroaching on first class? Allowing other people to eat in the same room?

Uh, yes, that’s exactly what first class is about. It’s that curtain, door or rope that provides some degree of seclusion, privacy and exclusivity reserved for those paying more.




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[Rockingham Racer]

I just did a run-through on amtrak.com and checked out some of the café menus and prices. It's astounding how LOW prices are on the Heartland Flyer. Would I be correct to say that Oklahoma is heavily subsidizing it?

[electricron]

I just did a run-through on amtrak.com and checked out some of the café menus and prices. It's astounding how LOW prices are on the Heartland Flyer. Would I be correct to say that Oklahoma is heavily subsidizing it?

Not really. I think those lower prices for food on the Heartland Flyer reflects the lower cost of food in Fort Worth compared to food costs in LA, SF, Seattle, Chicago, New York City, or Miami - where-ever else Amtrak has food suppliers. There is a web site that provides data on cost of living, although I'll admit I have no idea how accurate or current it is. But overall, the cost of living is cheaper in Texas and Oklahoma than on either coast.
https://www.bestplaces.net
Grocery Fort Worth 92.9 TX 96.6 USA 100
Grocery Chicago 93.9 IL 97.4 USA 100
Grocery New York City 114.7 NY 101.7 USA 100
Grocery Los Angeles 100.4 CA 107.2 USA 100
Compared to New York City, the prices for food in Fort Worth is 80.99%. That's 19.01% cheaper.
The web site was probably looking at retail prices, Amtrak should be paying wholesale prices.

[Rockingham Racer]

Ron, perhaps,, but liquor is pretty expensive in Texas. And cocktails are only $3.50 on this train. I don't know how to explain that.

[electricron]

Ron, perhaps,, but liquor is pretty expensive in Texas. And cocktails are only $3.50 on this train. I don't know how to explain that.

Where did you read cocktails were just $3.50 on this train?
Per. https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/proj ... 122010.pdf
It is $4.25. Beer could be either $3.50 or $3.75 depending upon the brand.

Compare to Amtrak’s national cafe menu, cocktails are $6.50 and beer are $5 or $6 depending upon the brand.

https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/proj ... u-0118.pdf

Some math follows:
Beer = 3.50 / 5.00 = 0.70, or 70%.
Cocktails = 4.25 / 6.50 = 0.65 or 65%.

While a lower % than what the cost of living web site suggests, it is not that much lower.
Also consideration should be given on how much of the Superliner cafe-coach affects Amtrak’s operations cost. On many Amfleets, the cafe uses an entire coach car, with a loss of 60-70 seats. On a Superliner cafe-coach, the cafe uses the lower seating area, with a loss of just 12 seats. Additionally, the Heartland Flyer is a single class of service train, no freebies are given away with a loss of cafe car revenues on the bottom line.
It should be apparent it costs Amtrak less money to provide this service on the Heartland Flyer, even if the labor costs the same.

[David Benton]

Could be a seperate supplier, not Aramark who does the national network. Downeaster and Cascades also have their own menus , and definitely have different suppliers.

[gokeefe]

Very much agreed. It this was Aramark the prices almost certainly would be the same as the national network.

[Ken W2KB]

I just did a run-through on amtrak.com and checked out some of the café menus and prices. It's astounding how LOW prices are on the Heartland Flyer. Would I be correct to say that Oklahoma is heavily subsidizing it?

Note the date on the menu. It is about 10 years old! Assuming that Amtrak did not err by posting an old image, it is almost certain that the cost is being subsidized to have the prices unchanged in 10 years.

[electricron]

Note the date on the menu. It is about 10 years old! Assuming that Amtrak did not err by posting an old image, it is almost certain that the cost is being subsidized to have the prices unchanged in 10 years.

You have a valid point that we've been looking at an obsolete cafe menu with prices from 10 years ago.

[Rockingham Racer]

You know I was going to go back and check out the date of issue, but it slipped my mind. So it begs the question: why is this menu up on the website, the answer to which I think I know.

[lordsigma12345]

Amtrak actually reposted a bunch of outdated menus when they redid the dining website for the "FlexDining". They put back up the old National network and Acela cafe menus, which I'm pretty sure have both been replaced in favor of the "Corridor Cafe" menu that's on the northeast regionals with the Boar's Head sandwiches. I know for sure Acela has that now and I thought I heard the standardized the LD cafes with that menu too.

[Gilbert B Norman]

An interesting Opinion piece appeared in this psst Sunday's Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/28/opin ... mtrak.html

Fair Use:

.Riding the train is always a reminder of the things I don’t do enough: sit and talk with strangers. Spend time in a space designated for one thing instead of a multitasking hub designed to be everything all at once. Slow down. While the train is often the fastest way to my destination, it’s also the most leisurely. And these days, leisure can feel like an afterthought.

Amtrak announced in late September that it would halt its dining service on long-distance trains, trading traditional dining cars — the more luxurious version of the cafe car I sat in as I traveled home that harried evening — for “flexible” and “contemporary” dining options. While the change will only affect certain East Coast one-night routes, it ignited a conversation about all that is lost in an attempt to have more: more privacy instead of sitting next to fellow travelers, more time to do things more productive than waiting for a meal, more quickness and ease. The desire to “lure a younger generation of riders,” cited as part of the reason for the change, is an example of what feels like a message from society to millennials in particular: We’re going to offer less and expect you to get more out of it.

Since this member of the "Silent Generation" is simply too far removed from the Millennials, that likeky comprise half the Membership around here, I submit without further comment.

[lordsigma12345]

An interesting Opinion piece appeared in this psst Sunday's Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/28/opin ... mtrak.html

Fair Use:

.Riding the train is always a reminder of the things I don’t do enough: sit and talk with strangers. Spend time in a space designated for one thing instead of a multitasking hub designed to be everything all at once. Slow down. While the train is often the fastest way to my destination, it’s also the most leisurely. And these days, leisure can feel like an afterthought.

Amtrak announced in late September that it would halt its dining service on long-distance trains, trading traditional dining cars — the more luxurious version of the cafe car I sat in as I traveled home that harried evening — for “flexible” and “contemporary” dining options. While the change will only affect certain East Coast one-night routes, it ignited a conversation about all that is lost in an attempt to have more: more privacy instead of sitting next to fellow travelers, more time to do things more productive than waiting for a meal, more quickness and ease. The desire to “lure a younger generation of riders,” cited as part of the reason for the change, is an example of what feels like a message from society to millennials in particular: We’re going to offer less and expect you to get more out of it.

Since this member of the "Silent Generation" is simply too far removed from the Millennials, that likeky comprise half the Membership around here, I submit without further comment.

I am a Millennial and I like the traditional dining service - I've met lots of interesting people. I've had it on the Auto Train, Crescent, and Silver Meteor (two of which sadly are losing it.) However as we know from first class airlines, pre-prepared food can be fine if of decent quality and a decent presentation. I can probably accept what Amtrak is offering as a replacement on the trains it is running them on - I like the look of the new trays far better than the meal in a box they had before. I'd like to see them keep more substantial food on the two nighters which it seems for now they are doing. I'd rather seen them not have made this cut, but I also realize it was probably unavoidable with the F&B mandate in congress. Not gutting the diner for Auto Train sleeper passengers was probably a smart move given that it's the cash cow of the bunch and it seems they'd like to get that particular train into the black.

[David Benton]

Yeah, I don't see it as a millennial thing.
Its a tricky one , very hard to figure out why people Aren't using a service. What do you do , go through and ask all the coach passengers why they aren't in sleeper , or why they are not using the Diner. Even harder to gauge why people are not on Amtrak at all .