Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

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jp1822
Posts: 3811
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 10:03 pm
Location: New York, NY

Longer Trip

Post by jp1822 » Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:13 am

Nontheless, the Adirondack has had time added to its schedule in the past few years - track maintenance was reported to blame.

Noel Weaver
Posts: 9630
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Pompano Beach, Florida

Long Trip

Post by Noel Weaver » Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:21 am

One reason for the excessive running time for this particular train is the
excessive amount of time wasted at the border for "customs and
immigration inspection".
Years ago, this was done while the train was moving enroute, the US
Customs people would go into Canada and meet the train and ride it to the
first US station and interview all the passengers while enroute. Another
way it was done years ago was to do a pre check and seal your suitcase
at the station in Canada before you boarded in a US only bound coach.
They also had you fill out some paperwork. They would then pass through
the train enroute, check the seals (sometimes) and pick up the paper work
and little or no time was lost at the border.
There are better ways to accomplish customs and immigration inspections
and if there was a will to do it, it could be done.
Noel Weaver

Dieter
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Location: Sobeys

The Adirondack

Post by Dieter » Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:48 pm

What is the latest buzz on New York / Montreal service?

I heard recently that they (NY State, Amtrak?) wanted to kill it.

Why isn't the former D&H line considered for upgrading for high speed service? Given it's present schedule, this train can't compete as long as I can make it from Hoboken to the Champlain Bridge in five hours with a car.

Your thoughts?

Dieter.
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Gilbert B Norman
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Location: Clarendon Hills, IL (BNSF Chicago Sub; MP 18.71)

Post by Gilbert B Norman » Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:09 pm

At this time, the train has been funded for this current Fiscal Year.

Possiblity of any major line upgrade North of Albany, slim to none.

JFB
Posts: 218
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:46 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Post by JFB » Mon Aug 23, 2004 4:08 pm

A semantic point, but accute in acvocacy: no one wanted to kill the Adirondack. The threat was simple ploitical posturing. Amtrak wanted its 403(b) money, NY State balked, a showdown ensued. The fact that the train still runs testifies that both parties, especially the state, are very interested in keeping it.

The existing D&H line is too curvy to be considered for HSR. Such plans, never more than concept, involved cutting completely new right-of-way between Schenectady and Montreal.

On the conventional side, however, improvements can be made. Present time of 10.25 hours is about 2.5-3 hours down from realistic driving time ("realistic" excluding drivers who are hyperbolic braggarts or maniacs). Reasonable infrastructure upgrade and expiditing the border-crossing process can go a long way toward making the Adirondack time-competitive with driving--on the other hand, ridership doesn't seem to suffer from those extra 3 hours.

Anyone know what time the Laurentian and Montreal Limited made in the "best of times?"

Gilbert B Norman
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:52 am
Location: Clarendon Hills, IL (BNSF Chicago Sub; MP 18.71)

NYC Form 1001 Oct 25, 1958

Post by Gilbert B Norman » Mon Aug 23, 2004 4:42 pm

The "thousand and one' effective Oct 25, 1958 called for a GCT departure @ 900A combined with the Empire State Express. Montreal (Gare Windsor) arrival was 630P. Montreal Limited #61, with seven Sleeping Cars in consist, departed GCT 1145P arrival Montreal 905A Diner was attached at Whitehall.

CNJ

Re: NYC Form 1001 Oct 25, 1958

Post by CNJ » Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:58 pm

Gilbert B Norman wrote:The "thousand and one' effective Oct 25, 1958 called for a GCT departure @ 900A combined with the Empire State Express. Montreal (Gare Windsor) arrival was 630P. Montreal Limited #61, with seven Sleeping Cars in consist, departed GCT 1145P arrival Montreal 905A Diner was attached at Whitehall.

Thats what that line needs back Mr. Gilbert....

Service like the former Montreal Limited/Laurentian

With Sleepers, Diner, Parlor and Club service!!!!!

Hmmm...Last time I rode it as a D&H train...the diner went all the way to Montreal.
Last edited by CNJ on Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gilbert B Norman
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:52 am
Location: Clarendon Hills, IL (BNSF Chicago Sub; MP 18.71)

Addendum

Post by Gilbert B Norman » Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:06 pm

I guess I should add that the Laurentian consist comprised an NYC Parlor Obs,, through Coaches and a Diner Albany Montreal (NYC Diner NY-Albany-Buffalo).

jp1822
Posts: 3811
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 10:03 pm
Location: New York, NY

Overnight Service

Post by jp1822 » Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:23 pm

Would love to see an overnight service between NYC and Montreal via NY or Connecticut/Vermont (or both).

CNJ

Re: Overnight Service

Post by CNJ » Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:39 pm

jp1822 wrote:Would love to see an overnight service between NYC and Montreal via NY or Connecticut/Vermont (or both).
Indeed.....

Montreal service could definately be enhanced over both routes.

dumpster.penguin
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:57 pm

Single Track

Post by dumpster.penguin » Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:04 pm

"Back in the day" was the Adk's route up Lk Champlain single-tracked like it is today?

AmtrakFan

Post by AmtrakFan » Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:15 pm

I wish they would still have the Overnight Montrealer Train also I wish they would bring back the Turbo Train because it would offset the Extra Cost.

AmtrakFan

Irish Chieftain

Post by Irish Chieftain » Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:30 pm

Can't bring back the Turbotrain; they're all scrapped IIRC.

hsr_fan

Post by hsr_fan » Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:51 pm

I've always thought that overnight service would make perfect sense between New York and Montreal. It's a shame that the Montrealer is gone, although with Amtrak's current paltry single level long distance fleet, they certainly don't have the sleepers or diners for such a service. In a perfect world, I would like to see Amtrak get at least 50 new single level diners, 50 first class lounge/parlour cars, and a couple hundred sleepers. That would be enough to properly equip all of the remaining eastern long distance trains, and add a couple, such as New York to Montreal!

Sitting in an Amfleet for 10 hours doesn't really appeal to me, but I would love to be able to catch an evening departure from New York on a sleeper-equipped train and wake up in Montreal the next morning. Overnight service seems like a cheap, practical alternative to high speed rail between the two cities.

Noel Weaver
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Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Pompano Beach, Florida

Adirondack

Post by Noel Weaver » Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:36 pm

The UAC Turbo Trains are indeed gone - scrapped - good riddance.
The New York State Turbo Trains are still around as per other treads.
Overnight train to Montreal? Wouldn't it be nice if? I do not see it coming
anytime in the near future, a number of problems and high cost is what
killed the Montrealer in 1995 to begin with.
I do think the Vermonter should be extended to Montreal, maybe it would
help patronage at least a little.
There are a number of problems with running an overnight sleeping car
train from/to New York - Montreal. In the off season, patronage would be
quite lite, cost of servicing the train in Canada would be very expensive,
it would need to operate via New London again as the reverse moves at
Springfield and Palmer would add to the cost on that route and that might
hurt business just a little.
I do not think the market is there for daily overnight sleeping car service
on this route. I do think that a weekend sleeping car train going north on
Friday night and south on Sunday night could pay between New York and
Saint Albans to serve the Vermont ski resorts. First trip late December
and last trip very early April.
Restoration of checked baggage service would also help in Vermont.
As for the Adirondack, a lot of people are trying to make the train what it
can't be which is a high speed link. One train a day between New York and Montreal serves a major remote area with not much other transportation, major resorts at Saratoga, Lake Placid (via transfer) and
Lake Champlain as well as probably one of the most beautiful cities in
North America - Montreal. It serves it purpose very well.
Noel Weaver

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