Amtrak in 2011: 40 years of being America's Railroad...

[GWoodle]

I had other friends who rode the last Danbury - Pittsfield train or last branch line trains in Florida but this is what I chose to do.

Noel Weaver

Noel (or anyone on here), do you have any information on the last branch line trains in Florida that you mention? I'm interested in what A-Day looked like here in the Sunshine State, but didn't want to start another thread about this. Wasn't NY-Florida a profitable route for anyone (ACL, Seaboard, FEC), or did everyone heed the call to "come on down" by air and road by then?

Air Florida began operations in 1972 as a low cost to Florida carrier. They may have been at first a NYC-Florida operation with later expansion into the Midwest. After the Potomac crash, ATA & Southwest took over most of the Air Florida service. IMHO it is impossible to discount the power of the mouse & the disney properties as a tourist destination. Other posters may have a better idea when I-75 or I-65 took care of midwest to florida drivers while I-95 took care of the NE. The 1980's may have been a second wave of retired snowbirds buying property somewhere South. The fastest growing counties may have been from Ocala & south. I suspect most of those folks are in no big hurry but use I-75 or I-95 as an easy drive south when you can ignore any time pressures.

[electricron]

Thanks for the history of Florida freeways. May I ask how that is related in any way to Amtrak's 40th Anniversary, the title of this thread?

[Gilbert B Norman]

Returning to rail transportation, there have been reports that the SCL was "making book' on their passenger service right up to A-Day. Whether "making book" included a profit under the "fully allocated" method of accounting proscribed by the ICC, I know not and I rather doubt it, but it likely meant that the passenger trains were putting more into the cookie jar than they were taking out. In terms of household accounting, they were "making ends meet".

Again I reiterate my earlier statements that the SCL darned near stayed out of Amtrak, but thought the better of it when they realized there would be matters of equipment replacement, and of course the "1000lb gorilla in the room" of to what extent would Amtrak cooperate with an efficient interchange at Wash or, depending upon whether RF&P signed up, Richmond. There is also the possibility they forecasted that, even if the cookie jar went negative, there would still be more Keeblers left in five years than had the Amtrak entry fee been taken out on A-Day. At that time, they would have had a strong case with the ICC ("look, we tried") to be rid of them.

[Noel Weaver]

Branch lines in Florida that lasted right up until day one of Amtrak included Tampa - Sarasota - Venice, Lakeland - Fort Myers - Naples and Clearwater - Jacksonville via the old ACL route through Dunedin and Gainsville.
Both Naples and Venice had through cars to Washington and New York. The line through Denedin hosted the Chicago - St. Petersburg cars on a daily basis as the City of Miami/South Wind operation was split at Jacksonville.
Just my opinion but I think Venice and Naples would probably have remained under SCL for some time as they were mainly connections for long haul passengers. I am not so sure about the old ACL route through Dunedin.
The route between Jacksonville and New Orleans also remained up until day one as well and I don't think SCL would have kept this route indefinately especially because of the indifference of the L & N connection.
I don't think there is any question but if the SCL had elected to stay out they would have had a very friendly connection with Amtrak at either Washington or Richmond.
I think what triggered SCL's decision to go with Amtrak was the presence of the additional trains between Jacksonville and Richmond which carried local passengers in the Carolinas but had no more mail nor express to help pay the costs. After the mail contracts were gone, these trains lost tons of money and SCL wanted to get rid of them. Even though they lost money on these trains, they maintained a decent level of service on them with meal service for the most part and very decent equipment as well, I rode some of them at various times and they were very pleasant trips.
Noel Weaver

[Gilbert B Norman]

Mr. Weaver, In view of the exemplary cooperation that prevailed between Amtrak and the SRY, your supposition is likely correct. However, such was not a "known" leading up to A-Day. The decision process of each road, including any "overtures" to Amtrak to the effect of "will you cooperate with us and to what extent if we choose to stay out" was a closely guarded secret (after all, I don't think the "Eighth Floor' was about to invite a newly hired Management Trainee, i.e. GBN, "upstairs' to sit in on any pertinent meetings) - especially amongst roads, SCL and SRY, that could be considered "competitors'.

To what extent the DRGW and SRY model of "hang on now and join up later' was on the table at 500 Water, I know not. I should also represent that what i have reported here can only be considered "authoritative hearsay', i.e. learned from informed inside sources.

[John_Perkowski]

What Mr Norman notes for the SCL I have also heard for the Union Pacific and the Santa Fe. In their cases, a couple of the remnant trains still operating were the dilemma that pushed them to Amtrak.

[GWoodle]

Thanks for the history of Florida freeways. May I ask how that is related in any way to Amtrak's 40th Anniversary, the title of this thread?

Simply to point out the competition for the traveling dollar became fierce. Start with a 2 day drive from anywhere in the Midwest to Florida. Another option to spend a few hours in the air with your choice of the new Tampa Orlando airfields. The Floridian was the last Chicago-Florida service, but the poor track,poor timing, slow track doomed the route to failure.