Lake Shore Limited

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

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electricron
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Re: Lake Shore Limited

Post by electricron » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:56 pm

gprimr1 wrote:
Usually, NEC patrons choose to ride "regional" trains northbound to NYC
I'm not sure what you mean. You can't book a northbound ticket on a northbound LD train so regional or Acela is all they can ride. Do you mean they transfer in Washington? I never understood why people would do that. If I'm comfortable on the train I might as well stay there, after all once you make it to the NEC, you can make up a lot of time.
I meant passengers boarding trains at the end of a long distance route. And I was suggesting passengers north of D.C. in general to New York. Why would they buy a ticket and wait for an unpredictable arrival long distance train, either Silver Service, Crescent, Carolina or Cardinal, when they could buy a ticket for a more reliable arrival Regional train? They have Regional trains to select from, not just the always late long distance train.
western Massachusetts passengers heading for Boston only have one, a long distance train, to choose from. It can be hours late. But that same train heading west to Chicago, is usually close to being on time in western Massachusetts, or in other words far more reliable.

george matthews
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Re: Lake Shore Limited

Post by george matthews » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:33 pm

gprimr1 wrote: It's very sad because MA's population is basically concentrated along either the B&A or B&M route, so there are a lot of cities online that would benefit from expanded Amtrak service.
Or a Massachusets Rail agency. That is, why should the National rail operator run local trains?

gprimr1
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Re: Lake Shore Limited

Post by gprimr1 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:28 pm

I meant passengers boarding trains at the end of a long distance route. And I was suggesting passengers north of D.C. in general to New York. Why would they buy a ticket and wait for an unpredictable arrival long distance train, either Silver Service, Crescent, Carolina or Cardinal, when they could buy a ticket for a more reliable arrival Regional train? They have Regional trains to select from, not just the always late long distance train.
western Massachusetts passengers heading for Boston only have one, a long distance train, to choose from. It can be hours late. But that same train heading west to Chicago, is usually close to being on time in western Massachusetts, or in other words far more reliable.
That's why long distance trains become discharge only northbound only starting in DC and board only southbound until they reach DC.
Or a Massachusets Rail agency. That is, why should the National rail operator run local trains?
MSCR: Massachusetts State Commuter Rail. Maybe, one day. :)
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gokeefe
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Re: Lake Shore Limited

Post by gokeefe » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:52 pm

Has Amtrak given any thought to adding sleeper capacity to the Lake Shore Limited out of NYP?

Assuming for the moment (a brief moment) that they had an extra diner to spare, why not add three more sleepers on to the train out of NYP?

They seem to sell out so far in advance at present that there would in fact be sufficient demand for the additional capacity.

Just exactly how high is the sell out rate on this train? A quick check of amtrak.com showed 49 (21) had 3 roomettes left and 48 (22) had 2 roomettes left. So perhaps not as much demand after all?
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Re: Lake Shore Limited

Post by Jersey_Mike » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:29 am

Has Amtrak given any thought to adding sleeper capacity to the Lake Shore Limited out of NYP?
See the thread on the Iowa Pacific Pullman service for further information on what might be a short term fix to the sleeper capacity issue on the LSL. I was told that such service on the LSL and CNO is imminent at Amtrak comparable prices.

gokeefe
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Re: Lake Shore Limited

Post by gokeefe » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:07 am

Thanks Mike,

I should probably add to my earlier post that I am more than aware of the fact that Amtrak doesn't exactly just have three (six if you count both trainsets) sleepers just lying around not being used.

It was more of a question directed towards the idea about whether or not this kind of capacity should have been or should be considered as part of the Viewliner II equipment purchase.
gokeefe

afiggatt
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Re: Lake Shore Limited

Post by afiggatt » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:20 am

gokeefe wrote:Has Amtrak given any thought to adding sleeper capacity to the Lake Shore Limited out of NYP?

Assuming for the moment (a brief moment) that they had an extra diner to spare, why not add three more sleepers on to the train out of NYP?
Don't forget that the CAF Viewliner baggage-dorm cars will free up some 8 or 9 (?) roomettes for revenue sales. The NYP section of the LSL is running with only about 1 and a half Viewliner capacity. Adding a baggage-dorm car and one additional new sleeper for a total of 3 sleeper cars on will roughly double the sleeper capacity of the NYP part of the LSL. Adding 3 sleepers and an additional diner car would drive up the costs, especially the second diner car, and may exceed the market demand at this time. The goal is to improve cost recovery by balancing revenue against costs - both operating and equipment acquisition & maintenance. Amtrak is obviously taking a careful approach in expanding capacity as they can't afford to get stuck with a lot of excess equipment.

If CAF gets follow-on orders for Viewliner based single level coach cars and the production line stays open, Amtrak should be able to place incremental orders for more sleeper and diner cars if the market demand and capital funding is there for expansion of the single level LD trains.

Jishnu
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Re: Lake Shore Limited

Post by Jishnu » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:02 pm

gokeefe wrote: I should probably add to my earlier post that I am more than aware of the fact that Amtrak doesn't exactly just have three (six if you count both trainsets) sleepers just lying around not being used.
Actually 9 considering the fact that it takes three trainsets to run the Lake Shore Limited between CHI and NYP.

scoostraw
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Re: Lake Shore Limited

Post by scoostraw » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:06 am

CSX Conductor wrote:A major factor in the summer when running on CSXT territory during the summer is that when the temperature goes above 80 degrees CSXT issues Heat Restrictions, which requires passenger trains to reduce speed by 20mph.
Why is this exactly? Is there a concern about the track sun-kinking or expanding out of gauge?

Greg Moore
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Re: Lake Shore Limited

Post by Greg Moore » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:19 am

scoostraw wrote:
CSX Conductor wrote:A major factor in the summer when running on CSXT territory during the summer is that when the temperature goes above 80 degrees CSXT issues Heat Restrictions, which requires passenger trains to reduce speed by 20mph.
Why is this exactly? Is there a concern about the track sun-kinking or expanding out of gauge?
Basically yes.
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Greg Moore
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Re: Lake Shore Limited

Post by Greg Moore » Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:13 pm

So once again rode the 448 section of the LSL from ALB-BOS (well this time FRA).

And again several thoughts on this route:
1) I still stand by my belief that a morning shuttle from ALB-BOS would generate business. Granted, slower than the bus or driving, but it provides a certain convenience. The problem of course is CSX. But if it originated in Albany in the morning, it could have a better OTP than the 448 simply because it wouldn't be waiting for the Chicago section. I would certainly ride this if it were available.

2) I think an immediate stop that NYS should consider is in Chatham. Yes, this goes against the "Limited" part of the name and Chatham is not far from Pittsfield or Albany (about 30 miles/minutes either way) but I think as an intermediate stop it would also help generate additional traffic for the existing LSL and any other trains that might come later.

3) Amtrak has GOT to work on better OTP once it enters CSX territory. If this is a matter of insisting on better dispatching, working with MA for passing sidings or something, this train really has to get better at its OTP. We were about 1 hour late leaving Albany and arrived at Framingham 3 hours late. We sat outside the Worcester station for 20 minutes. This has GOT to frustrate any passengers who actually want to get off at Worcester. Sitting outside a station absolutely sucks.

Other than that, as usual, at least the western section, during daylight hours is a beautiful trip.

I do hope to do this west bound one of these days.
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jmar896
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Re: Lake Shore Limited

Post by jmar896 » Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:47 pm

A morning shuttle from Albany would generate business, especially if it stopped in Springfield and Worcester there's just not enough space for one. Not only do you run into problems with CSX but you also have to deal with the MBTA. The MBTA doesn't want more trains stopping at Union Station. Its already pretty much 100% capacity in the morning and afternoon because they sit there for 30 minutes activating the cab car and boarding. Then you get to South Station and it's again packed. No extra space. Since I'm guessing it would come in after rush hour there *might* be enough space at BOS but Union Station cuases big problems for Amtrak moving through when the MBTA is there. Since its only single platform the Amtrak has to sit and wait, especially since MBTA takes priority there. The only way you can really increse trains stopping at Worcester is adding a 2nd platform and at this rate unless Boston Surface Railroad Co gets funded there probably won't be one until service from Worcester to Springfield becomes more of a commuter operation. Everyone wants another platform at Worcester but no one wants to pay for it. I've seen the LSL wait for an MBTA train to depart the platform for 40 minutes.

Greg Moore
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Re: Lake Shore Limited

Post by Greg Moore » Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:11 am

There's only one platform at Worcester? Wow. That explains a lot. Yeah, time for a second platform.

Strange question, could something like a "Berkshire Limited" go to BON instead of BOS? Not as useful, but at least links up the Downeaster.

Keep in mind that any such shuttle wouldn't be arriving into Worcester until probably 10 or 11 AM and BOS closer to Noon.
(I'm assuming leaving Albany between 6 and 7 and a 4-5 hour journey).
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Rockingham Racer
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Re: Lake Shore Limited

Post by Rockingham Racer » Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:53 am

There is a plan to put a second platform at Worcester on the south side of the ROW. It's part of the Amtrak plan to add trains to the Inland Route.

I agree with the Chatham stop. You might want to add Palmer, too. It's not like this train would be moving at 79 MPH, so a few more stops on it would generate more traffic.

The EGE
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Re: Lake Shore Limited

Post by The EGE » Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:49 am

Chatham and Palmer are such obvious stops; it's very surprising they haven't been added yet. Palmer had one-a-day service until A-day; Chatham actually had Harlem Line service until 1972 but east-west service also ended on A-day.

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