Amtrak in Miami (Hialeah, Miami Intermodal Center/Airport)

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

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Jeff Smith
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Re: Miami Airport Station

Post by Jeff Smith » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:55 am

Cross post to Amtrak as it seems primarily about them.
Next stop, Willoughby
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Gilbert B Norman
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Re: Miami Airport Station

Post by Gilbert B Norman » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:19 pm

Last time I had occasion to note. the Amtrak signage is gone.

So long as operational efficiency trumps customer convenience at Amtrak, it will never be used.

As noted at other topics, the customer convenience it could offer is questionable as well.

ryanov
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Re: Miami Airport Station

Post by ryanov » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:24 pm

I don’t see any advantage to this station over the current one. I’ve used TriRail to the Metro transfer station in roughly the same spot at the Amtrak station. It’s a kind of dingy looking area, but didn’t seem at all unsafe to me.

What is the use case for Amtrak to the airport? The Metro goes more places from the current Amtrak station. The branch to the airport requires a transfer to far more places than the current station does, and the two stations are roughly equivalent for going downtown.

What would be a win is getting the train downtown. Doesn’t Brightline run right to Government Center?
|=| R. Novosielski |=|

Gilbert B Norman
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Re: Miami Airport Station

Post by Gilbert B Norman » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:45 pm

Mr. Novosielski, to service Miami Central would result in passenger convenience, but no real improvement in operational efficiency. All the physical connections for Tri Rail to serve there are in place as is the intent; what remains is "higgling and piggling".

I really can't think of Amtrak as "competition" to Brightline, but I'll bet somebody will.

Of course, if all parties were "willing", "able" would have to wait until one could figure out how to extend either the Brightline or Tri Rail platform to handle the twelve car Amtrak train. On the strength of that, this proposal is a "never happen".

njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: Miami Airport Station

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:59 pm

Metrorail Transfer Station is in a dingy area but there are plenty of people who go through that station changing from Tri-Rail to Metrorail. Just be extra careful when at that station and leaving it.

I don’t think Amtrak will ever end at Miami Central. From looking at pictures, I see that the platforms aren’t long enough. Plus a yard would have to be built to handle Amtrak equipment.

Probably at this point, if the grade crossing issue can’t get straightened out just north of the MIC, it’s just better to have Amtrak stay where it is and then have a dedicated bus only for people who are transferring from their Amtrak train to Downtown Miami, and perhaps the cruise terminal.

MattW
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Re: Miami Airport Station

Post by MattW » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:46 pm

ryanov wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:24 pm
I don’t see any advantage to this station over the current one. I’ve used TriRail to the Metro transfer station in roughly the same spot at the Amtrak station. It’s a kind of dingy looking area, but didn’t seem at all unsafe to me.

What is the use case for Amtrak to the airport? The Metro goes more places from the current Amtrak station. The branch to the airport requires a transfer to far more places than the current station does, and the two stations are roughly equivalent for going downtown.

What would be a win is getting the train downtown. Doesn’t Brightline run right to Government Center?
I'm confused, the metro doesn't go anywhere from the current Amtrak station. There are two bus routes, neither look frequent. The other alternative is to walk a quarter mile on not great sidewalks through a pretty industrial area to the Metro station. In terms of to and from the airport station, the Orange line seems to go just as many places as Amtrak passengers are likely to go since it overlaps the Green Line the entire route from Earlington Heights on all normal schedules. The only stations it misses seem to be primarily residential stations. It's also scheduled as slightly faster, MIA-Overton (Brightline) is 13 minutes via the Orange Line and 19 minutes via Tri-Rail. With the transfer time, it should be much faster for MIA-OVT since the station is right there, you don't have to go off-site.
njt/mnrrbuff wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:59 pm
Metrorail Transfer Station is in a dingy area but there are plenty of people who go through that station changing from Tri-Rail to Metrorail. Just be extra careful when at that station and leaving it.

I don’t think Amtrak will ever end at Miami Central. From looking at pictures, I see that the platforms aren’t long enough. Plus a yard would have to be built to handle Amtrak equipment.

Probably at this point, if the grade crossing issue can’t get straightened out just north of the MIC, it’s just better to have Amtrak stay where it is and then have a dedicated bus only for people who are transferring from their Amtrak train to Downtown Miami, and perhaps the cruise terminal.
I believe the grade crossing issues were resolved by a bypass and electronic signage routing drivers to the bypass when the normal route is blocked by a train.

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Re: Amtrak in Miami (Hialeah, Miami Intermodal Center/Airport)

Post by Jeff Smith » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:06 pm

Bump
Next stop, Willoughby
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Gilbert B Norman
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Re: Amtrak in Miami (Hialeah, Miami Intermodal Center/Airport)

Post by Gilbert B Norman » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:59 am

Here is a posting I made during 2011 when going into the Intermodal Center appeared a done deal. I couldn't find much reason back then, and with the "run 'em as efficiently as possible until we can be rid of 'em" attitude today, I sure can't now:
Gilbert B Norman wrote:
Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:30 pm
"Last time I checked", namely when I was last "down below" during this past February, there is no assurance that Amtrak will use the Intermodal Center - MIC.

I can think of reasons why Amtrak should not use the facility. First, the existing station is "right sized' and adequately attractive for the 'two a day' it handles, and if somehow the political winds blow differently and there is an initiative for additional trains, they also could be handled if they were spaced throughout the day . Secondly, the reverse moves that would be necessitated will simply add to congestion over and interference with FEC freight operations X-ing the Iris diamond. This means the new transfer runs between the Port and the FEC Hialeah container facility.

So far as passenger convenience, the only segment of Amtrak's Miami passengers that would be benefited are those that rent autos - and somehow i think that is a mighty small segment. I guess there are too are some that could find the airport ground transportation offerings convenient. But somehow i think more passengers than not are "met' by friends or relatives, and for that segment, there would be considerably longer walks to the auto, a much greater possibility of "losing" it (you know; elderly and overwhelmed), and having to pay for that parking.

I also must question what commercial use for the land on which the station (that would presumably be razed) is located could be found - even if the real estate market should warm up again.

All told, Amtrak's best interests could well be best served by simply staying put.

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Re: Amtrak in Miami (Hialeah, Miami Intermodal Center/Airport)

Post by Jeff Smith » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:20 am

My hunch, or "wish" if you will, is that if Virgin makes a successful go of it, is that they bid for the Amtrak Florida service out of Jacksonville. Whether that involves Amtrak just withdrawing, Virgin supplanting them somehow, a subsidy (which was one of Mr. Norman's first surmises I will readily admit, and could remain a possibility), we shall see. And with FL owning the CSX line (the "S" line?) that Sunrail runs on (not sure how much more they own), they could make that happen without CSX interference, giving Virgin their connection along the I-4 corridor Jax-Orlando-Tampa.

Yes, there'll be a transfer. But the Florida portions are daylight runs; sleepers not required. Just need to tweak the schedules a bit.
Next stop, Willoughby
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bostontrainguy
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Re: Amtrak in Miami (Hialeah, Miami Intermodal Center/Airport)

Post by bostontrainguy » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:32 am

Jeff Smith wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:20 am
And with FL owning the CSX line (the "S" line?) that Sunrail runs on
That's the A Line.

mtuandrew
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Re: Amtrak in Miami (Hialeah, Miami Intermodal Center/Airport)

Post by mtuandrew » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:43 am

Why bid when they can just run their own JAX-MIA and JAX-ORL service? It’s entirely possible that Virgin just doesn’t take on those services though, if they are having trouble filling seats now they wouldn’t want to try to fill seats to the smaller Jacksonville market.

electricron
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Re: Amtrak in Miami (Hialeah, Miami Intermodal Center/Airport)

Post by electricron » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:53 pm

bostontrainguy wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:32 am
That's the A Line.
Sunrail owns MP 749.61 to MP 813.82 of the original CSX Transportation, Inc., A-Line.
That's from DeLand in the north to Poinciana to the south. Phase 1 built the line north to DeBarry. Phase 2 builds the line south to Poincianna. Phase 3 may be built in the future to DeLand along the A-Line ROW, then to Daytona Beach along the I-4 ROW.

For Sunrail to be extended further along CSX ROW, a new agreement with CSX will be needed.

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Re: Amtrak in Miami (Hialeah, Miami Intermodal Center/Airport)

Post by Backshophoss » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:35 am

If that grade crossing is one of the issues,putting HSR style "super" gates might be the cure.
What needs to be done to allow direct access to Amtrak's Hialeah yard from MIC?
The Land of Enchantment is not Flyover country!

mtuandrew
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Re: Amtrak in Miami (Hialeah, Miami Intermodal Center/Airport)

Post by mtuandrew » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:09 am

I believe the quad gates are already in place and the road detour posted to accommodate the longer Amtrak trains. Amtrak doesn’t even need track work.

MattW
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Re: Amtrak in Miami (Hialeah, Miami Intermodal Center/Airport)

Post by MattW » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:38 am

To be fair, it's more than 2 moves per day. Two trains each way, two moves each (deadhead in, revenue out and vice versa) is 8 moves.

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