All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

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Rockingham Racer
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Re: All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

Post by Rockingham Racer » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:39 am

I'm not sure why everything has to stop at Paoli. Tradition?

ExCon90
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Re: All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

Post by ExCon90 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:49 pm

Partly, but the reason for the tradition was the number of passengers from stations between Overbrook and Daylesford who used the suburban trains to Paoli to save going into Philadelphia and retracing their route westward. I don't know whether there's a reliable way of checking how many Keystone passengers transfer to and from SEPTA locals at Paoli nowadays, but I believe the project now under way at Paoli provides for much more parking than any other nearby station. Paoli is essentially Philadelphia's Croton-Harmon, Stamford, and Aurora.

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STrRedWolf
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Re: All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

Post by STrRedWolf » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:04 pm

Ugh... and this is when I wish there were a center raised platform for express trains... Paoli doesn't have it.
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Re: All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:12 pm

Yes, the concept of switching from Septa to Amtrak at Paoli Station is like switching from a Metro North to an Amtrak train at Croton-Harmon. FYI-Amtrak trains don't stop in Aurora but instead in Naperville so those people who live along the Racetrack well past Chicago and want to connect to Amtrak to California as well as to Galesburg and Quincy would transfer from their Metra at Naperville.

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Re: All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

Post by Septa Fan » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:28 pm

Don't forget that one can connect from SEPTA to AMTRAK successfully only if the SEPTA train arrives in Paoli on time., not always the case.

I've often wondered why more Keystone trains do not service Ardmore ? Especially since there is more public parking now available there.
Certainly stopping in Ardmore would reduce the number of necessary transfers at Paoli without unduly increasing the travel time on the line.

Just asking

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Re: All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

Post by ThirdRail7 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:42 pm

Septa Fan wrote:Don't forget that one can connect from SEPTA to AMTRAK successfully only if the SEPTA train arrives in Paoli on time., not always the case.

I've often wondered why more Keystone trains do not service Ardmore ? Especially since there is more public parking now available there.
Certainly stopping in Ardmore would reduce the number of necessary transfers at Paoli without unduly increasing the travel time on the line.

Just asking
It probably puts the Amtrak on the local tracks for too long. They have a slightly lower speed and they have more traffic.
Last edited by ThirdRail7 on Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Rockingham Racer
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Re: All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

Post by Rockingham Racer » Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:21 pm

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:Yes, the concept of switching from Septa to Amtrak at Paoli Station is like switching from a Metro North to an Amtrak train at Croton-Harmon. FYI-Amtrak trains don't stop in Aurora but instead in Naperville so those people who live along the Racetrack well past Chicago and want to connect to Amtrak to California as well as to Galesburg and Quincy would transfer from their Metra at Naperville.
Aurora doesn't have Amtrak service, so yes: Naperville is the transfer point; unless, of course, you board a Quincy train at LaGrange Road.

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Re: All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:37 pm

Remember, the Metra Aurora Station is off of the Main Line, starting to approach the embankment that goes through Downtown Aurora.

ExCon90
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Re: All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

Post by ExCon90 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:08 pm

I just remembered that -- after I was off the computer, naturally -- Naperville is the new Aurora.
Last edited by ExCon90 on Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

Post by ExCon90 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:09 pm

STrRedWolf wrote:Ugh... and this is when I wish there were a center raised platform for express trains... Paoli doesn't have it.
I think the plan calls for a raised center platform when the project is complete.

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Re: All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

Post by ExCon90 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:15 pm

As to the Ardmore stop, ThirdRail7 is correct. The first crossover possibility east of Ardmore is Overbrook, and the first one to the west is Bryn Mawr, a situation which will worsen when Bryn Mawr is replaced by a new pair of interlockings at Villanova. Sort of like Trenton and Metropark -- expresses and locals get in each other's hair.

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Re: All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

Post by ThirdRail7 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:31 pm

ExCon90 wrote:As to the Ardmore stop, ThirdRail7 is correct. The first crossover possibility east of Ardmore is Overbrook, and the first one to the west is Bryn Mawr, a situation which will worsen when Bryn Mawr is replaced by a new pair of interlockings at Villanova. Sort of like Trenton and Metropark -- expresses and locals get in each other's hair.
Is it true that Amtrak dropped the Wayne stop for the same reason?
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Re: All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

Post by ExCon90 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:45 pm

I never noticed that they had a Wayne stop, but if they did it would have compounded the problem, since there's nowhere to cross over between Paoli and Bryn Mawr. That would require Amtrak to run Track 1-- No. 1 Track to the diehards -- really narrowing the window during which an eastbound Amtrak train could leave Paoli without getting a succession of Approach signals all the way in, which in practice would result in the cab signals imposing a continuous speed of 30 mph for the 20 or so miles (they'd need to do 125 west of Paoli to make up for that). The Burlington racetrack has more flexibility with 3 tracks than the Main Line with 4 because there are so few interlockings.

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Re: All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

Post by andrewjw » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:57 am

Where is this Villanova interlocking documented? Where is the suggestion that it will replace Bryn Mawr, instead of augment?

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Re: All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

Post by ExCon90 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:03 pm

andrewjw wrote:Where is this Villanova interlocking documented? Where is the suggestion that it will replace Bryn Mawr, instead of augment?
I've seen a track diagram, but I forget who showed it to me. VILLA, west of the station, and NOVA, east of it, will enable a train to cross over from 2 to 1 or 3 to 4 for the station stop, then back to 2 or 3 after the stop -- much like ISELIN and MENLO (Metropark) on the NEC. No idea what the target date is. Maybe someone knows whether it's accessible on the net.

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