New Orleans Embargoed - Equipment Requisitioned

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, Amtrak67 of America, Tadman, gprimr1

John_Perkowski
Posts: 4890
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:12 pm
Location: Off the Q main near Parkville MO

Re: CONNDOT Constitution Liners to New Orleans

Post by John_Perkowski » Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:53 pm

I work inside a defense contractor firm, I have a close relative who is a specialist in Federal Acquisition Law, and during my military days, I gave input to RFPs. I think I've learned a few things about USG services contracts.

This contract, while written nationally, was designed for one place, one season a year: New Orleans.

That Amtrak has to lease equipment to meet its side of the obligation is interesting. I have to wonder if Amtrak is making or losing money in the current environment.
~John Perkowski: Moderator: General Discussion: Locomotives, Rolling Stock, and Equipment
Assistant Administrator: Railroad.net/forums
Jeff Smith & Greg Primrose now own railroad.net!

icgsteve
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:56 pm

Re: CONNDOT Constitution Liners to New Orleans

Post by icgsteve » Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:49 pm

mtuandrew wrote:I work inside a defense contractor firm, I have a close relative who is a specialist in Federal Acquisition Law, and during my military days, I gave input to RFPs. I think I've learned a few things about USG services contracts.

This contract, while written nationally, was designed for one place, one season a year: New Orleans.

That Amtrak has to lease equipment to meet its side of the obligation is interesting. I have to wonder if Amtrak is making or losing money in the current environment.
It appears that you might be correct John, details for the 2007 plan are here:http://transportation.house.gov/Media/F ... timony.pdf
However, FEMA did say that they were evaluating doing a national contract "In the longer term, FEMA will consider the feasibility of applying this evacuation model to other regions of the country" to apply to evacuations of any disater area, by rail. We need further documentation before we conclude that FEMA has not let a long term national contract.

Edited by a Moderator (who was quoted) 8-11-08 419PM CDT

John_Perkowski
Posts: 4890
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:12 pm
Location: Off the Q main near Parkville MO

Re: CONNDOT Constitution Liners to New Orleans

Post by John_Perkowski » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:41 am

This could be an impetus to a capital appropriation for Amtrak. Even assuming the next passenger car is built from existing engineering drawings, there are going to be tooling costs and production costs. Amtrak could maintain 1st generation Amfleet or Horizon equipment as a reserve.

Maintaining a small fleet of cars in service, on standby for significant events isn't a bad idea. The challenge is siting them. When you need them, you need them badly.

BTW, there is precedent. DOD contracted with the Pullman Company in the late 40s into the 50s to maintain a small fleet of sleepers ready for emergency service. They were stored at a variety of arsenals and depots around the country. Eventually, the contract ended and the cars were scrapped. This was due to the decline of the passenger train releasing LW cars from service such that old HW cars were redundant.
~John Perkowski: Moderator: General Discussion: Locomotives, Rolling Stock, and Equipment
Assistant Administrator: Railroad.net/forums
Jeff Smith & Greg Primrose now own railroad.net!

Gilbert B Norman
Posts: 14159
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:52 am
Location: Clarendon Hills, IL (BNSF Chicago Sub; MP 18.71)

Pullmans at Tobyhanna

Post by Gilbert B Norman » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:10 am

OT, but relating to Col. Perkowski's report, on a Hoboken to Scranton ride aboard the DL&W Phoebe Snow during March 1960, I do recall noting a number of heavyweight Pullmans parked at Tobyhanna AD. If I were to peruse my Black and White collection, I think I would find a photo of such. For 48 years, the question why they were there remained unanswered. Now apparently this no longer the case.

JimBoylan
Posts: 3325
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:33 pm

Re: CONNDOT Constitution Liners to New Orleans

Post by JimBoylan » Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:48 pm

Matt Johnson wrote:If Amtrak needs more cars, could these be stripped down to the bare frame and rebuilt to Amfleet specs?
They were built for and used Amfleet trains South of New Haven, then sometimes run under their own power to Springfield, Mass. as a through service from and to Washington. Extra frames that Budd built for speculative inventory were bought by Metchron {sp?] Industries and are stored at their shop just NorthWest of Wilmington, Del. station.

AMTK1007
Posts: 864
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:32 am

Re: CONNDOT Constitution Liners to New Orleans

Post by AMTK1007 » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:00 pm

mtuandrew wrote: Baton Rouge, LA is safe from storm surges, though it would definitely see heavy rain and local flooding from a northwesterly-bound hurricane coming over New Orleans. I'm assuming that they could round up at least one (UP, BNSF, KCS) engineer qualified for that stretch - for evacs, they might even find one that's willing to donate time.
Last edited by AMTK1007 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Conductors Portable calling the Head End of Amtrak 7, we have a green on the starting system, America's train can Depart Chicago on signal indication, lets go to channel 44

TomNelligan
Posts: 3329
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:43 pm
Location: Massachusetts

Re: CONNDOT Constitution Liners to New Orleans

Post by TomNelligan » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:02 pm

Matt Johnson wrote:If Amtrak needs more cars, could these be stripped down to the bare frame and rebuilt to Amfleet specs? Just curious. Granted, there are already Amfleets and a few Metroliner cab cars sitting in Bear, DE. But if Amtrak ever gets serious about fleet expansion...
No need to strip them down to the frame... the Budd SPVs were basically just self-propelled Amcoaches with the same general body design as the rest. When the self-propelled SPVs were rebuilt into "Constitution Liner" unpowered coaches they lost their diesel engines and were re-equipped with no-frills commuter seating. However I suspect that as you suggest the stored Amcoaches in Delaware might be restorable at lower expense, since presumably they still have their original reclining seats and wouldn't need new interiors.

Gilbert B Norman
Posts: 14159
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:52 am
Location: Clarendon Hills, IL (BNSF Chicago Sub; MP 18.71)

New Orleans Embargoed - Equipment Requisitioned

Post by Gilbert B Norman » Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:54 pm

From the website:

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentSe ... 8294206019

Brief passage:

  • The approach of severe weather and a declaration of an emergency have prompted Amtrak to temporarily suspend service to and from New Orleans for the safety of passengers, employees and equipment.

    Amtrak train equipment currently in New Orleans will be made available to federal and state authorities to assist in the evacuation of the city and to help maximize capacity for the evacuation. Amtrak is taking this action as a national transportation asset in accordance with its contract with the Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA), which is preparing for the evacuation of New Orleans.
Let's hope no "hekkuva job" moments this time if such comes to pass.

scotty269
Posts: 2732
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:47 am
Location: Manayunk, Philadelphia, PA

Re: New Orleans Embargoed - Equipment Requisitioned

Post by scotty269 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:25 pm

Which equipment does Amtrak have for FEMA to use? I noticed a few threads about the "Constitution Liners" (former SPVs) being stored there. What else, in terms of coaches/engines?
Last edited by scotty269 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jp1822
Posts: 3811
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 10:03 pm
Location: New York, NY

New Orleans Embargoed - Equipment Requisitioned

Post by jp1822 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:02 pm

They are just going to use the equipment that Connecticut has provided, a Sunset Limited train set that is in New Orleans and a City of New Orleans train set that is in New Orleans. I don't believe there is a Crescent train set they plan to use. Amtrak didn't provide Amfleets that had been in storage for this year's contract, rather somehow Connecticut got invlved with providing the Constitution Liners (ex-SPV 2000 cars). Who has the contract and who gets the fund and what triggers payment on the contract is also a mystery to me.

EDIT: The Keystone Corridor also had Capital Liners, which were names given to the original Metroliners (similar to the Amfleet design) after they were withdrawn from the NEC. The Capital Liners ran under their own power or eventually had an F40 take the lead, often with pantographs up to provide electric and/or HEP. Gradually they were withdrawn from service though and Heritage or Amfleet coaches took up the ranks. The Capital Liners may have been the last Amtrak Keyston train to operate into Surburban Station, now that I think of it. As after they were retired (the Capital Liners), I believe Amtrak went to the system of using the lower level of 30th St. Station for all Keystone related trains and either switching power from diesel to electric or running the electrics around to the other end during the reverse direction move.
Last edited by jp1822 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

TomNelligan
Posts: 3329
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:43 pm
Location: Massachusetts

Re: New Orleans Embargoed - Equipment Requisitioned

Post by TomNelligan » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:27 pm

Just for the record, Connecticut's depowered SPVs tht are now in NOLA were "Constitution Liners" after the state's nickname, not "Liberty Liners". The latter were onetime Pennsylvania electrics operating on what is now SEPTA's Route 100 to Norristown, the former North Shore Electroliners.

byte
Posts: 1218
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:37 pm
Location: IL

Re: New Orleans Embargoed - Equipment Requisitioned

Post by byte » Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:26 pm

Just read over on the IlliniRail yahoo list that five P42s were sent down on a CONO the other day (if this wasn't previously mentioned).
That old car might be worth money!

GWoodle
Posts: 631
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:06 pm
Location: Nashville TN

Re: New Orleans Embargoed - Equipment Requisitioned

Post by GWoodle » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:55 pm

There are reports on the local news where the trains may be operated into TN. At least the TN Nat Guard is on alert if they are needed.

Does anybody know if the pothole in Memphis has been fixed?
Glenn Woodle

union21
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:44 pm
Location: Gulfport, MS

Re: New Orleans Embargoed - Equipment Requisitioned

Post by union21 » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:53 am

The Senior Citizens and the Citizens with Special Needs are to be loaded unto the Amtrak provided Equipment at New Orleans Union Terminal. Mayor Negan said that Amtrak will be taking these folks to Memphis. People began arriving this morning at 8AM. Unsure if Equip is ready to go at this time. Currently NOLA is in evac mode. The traffic was getting worse when I got out at 9:30.
Side Bar- My Bus Company has a Contract with FEMA and we were called up last night... We're getting 166 dollars per hour!
Hope all goes well. I believe FEMA is doing an excellent job so far getting the word out.

BuddSilverliner269
Posts: 3662
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:40 am
Location: Trenton Line MP 30.70

Re: New Orleans Embargoed - Equipment Requisitioned

Post by BuddSilverliner269 » Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:29 pm

I just hope to God that these precautions are for nothing. I think we can all agree that these people in that area cant put up with another Katrina and Im glad more people are leaving as opposed to before. Im glad Amtrak and Bus companies are providing this equipment to evacuate everyone. Right now it makes the current system wide equipment shortage across the country go alil easier on us knowing that people down south will make it out in time, with those cars in New Orleans only being used for evacuation purposes only.

Return to “Amtrak”