Talgo on NYP- ALB

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Greg Moore
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Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 12:15 am
Location: IT Consultant

Post by Greg Moore »

DutchRailnut wrote:Actually replacement of Amfleets is high on priorities list but unfortunatly they don't have money to replace the currently nearly 35 year old Amfleets.
The replacements will probably be based on Viewliner but with single row of big windows ala Acela, The view liner is biggest car to fit anywhere on Amtrak system without any restrictions.
Amtrak last year hired engineering people to reverse engineer the current viewliner and to make it comply with todays CFR 49 requirements.
small windows like Amfleet are no longer allowed in new construction.
I've heard that mentioned. Not sure if it means much. Congress still has to allocate some money.

As for why folks ride the train. Experience is part of it. However, especially on the ALB-NYP route, it's business. Get me there comfortably and on time and I'm happy.

If we can break 2 hours, that's great (and the current equipment can do that.)

We don't need 125 mph on that route (thought it might be nice) we need more 110 mph running.

wigwagfan
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:57 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Post by wigwagfan »

Some clarifications:

The Talgo trainsets in the Pacific Northwest are authorized to travel at higher speeds through certain curves on the BNSF portion of the Vancouver, BC-Eugene, OR route. These curves are marked by speed restriction signs prefixed "T" and are yellow-on-black signs, whereas the normal "P" and "F" restrictions are black-on-yellow signs.

(UP has not authorized Amtrak to operate the Talgo train faster than posted "P" limits, so the Talgo trains operate at the same speed as the Superliner trains. However this only has a significant impact between East Portland and Canby; south of Canby the line is mostly straight all the way to Eugene with just a few very broad curves.)

At no point are the Talgo trainsets authorized any speed faster than 79 MPH; the same as the Superliner equipped trainsets (which must adhere to the slower "P" restriction).

The Talgo trainsets can be used with ANY locomotive; it just so happens that Amtrak settled on the F59PHI. P42s have been used on the train. The cab cars happen to be old F40PH shells. There is a standard coupler on either service car. In fact the Talgo can be delivered totally self-contained; and as such wouldn't even need an HEP equipped locomotive - it could be pulled by a GP38-2 or GP40-2 for that matter. Or a steam engine. Talgo also offers locomotives that "match" the trainset if you so desire.
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Erik Halstead - Portland, Oregon

Irish Chieftain

Post by Irish Chieftain »

At no point are the Talgo trainsets authorized any speed faster than 79 MPH; the same as the Superliner equipped trainsets (which must adhere to the slower "P" restriction).
Clarification: Exceeding 79 mph would be a FRA violation, primarily due to how the line is signaled. Even the Acela Express would not be permitted to go faster than 79 mph.
The Talgo trainsets can be used with ANY locomotive; it just so happens that Amtrak settled on the F59PHI. P42s have been used on the train. The cab cars happen to be old F40PH shells. There is a standard coupler on either service car. In fact the Talgo can be delivered totally self-contained; and as such wouldn't even need an HEP equipped locomotive - it could be pulled by a GP38-2 or GP40-2 for that matter. Or a steam engine. Talgo also offers locomotives that "match" the trainset if you so desire
The Talgo TPU, IIRC, was built with the specific intent of being used with single-unit locomotives versus custom-build power cars.

When the Pacific Northwest Talgo service started back in '94, the power was the F40PH

gprimr1
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Location: Towson Maryland

Post by gprimr1 »

The Talgo trainsets in the Pacific Northwest are authorized to travel at higher speeds through certain curves on the BNSF portion of the Vancouver, BC-Eugene, OR route. These curves are marked by speed restriction signs prefixed "T" and are yellow-on-black signs, whereas the normal "P" and "F" restrictions are black-on-yellow signs.
That's what I ment.
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Moderator: General Discussion: High Speed Rail Amtrak
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westernrrtx

PNW Talgo Trains

Post by westernrrtx »

Just a couple more points:

F 40 locomotives were used to pull the 1994 Talgo demonstrator in the Pacific Northwest. The demonstrator train provided it own HEP from two power cars, up to four diesel generator sets, one power car on each end. The demonstrator train was always pulled by a locomotive it was not regularly used in push / pull.

The new Talgo equipment ordered for Pacific Northwest Service is operated in push / pull mode typically with a F59 and a F40 type cab car. Other combinations can be used but only the F59 locomotives and F40 cab cars can go Talgo speeds. In addition only locomotives equipped with a push / pull type coupler can push the Talgo without major speed restrictions. Standard freight engines can pull up to their rated top speed or conventional passenger train speed which ever comes first.

The Talgo speeds on The BNSF are speeds on curves higher than normal based on the deflection measurements made on F 40’s, F 59’s and F40 cab cars. In reality the cars themselves could take the curves even faster the locomotives are the limiting factor. A lower center of gravity locomotive with self steering wheels could increase curve speeds even more.

79 mph is the maximum speed on the PNW corridor because there is no cab signal territory. The F59’s are rated for 110mph, the cab cars 100mph, and the Talgo train set is rated for 130mph.

The Pacific Northwest Talgo train sets are equipped with two HEP diesel generator sets in one power car. This power is typically only used as backup power. The F 59 normally provides HEP.

Extension of Trains 513 and 516 from Bellingham WA to Vancouver BC is contingent on an additional siding being built in Canada. Everyone wants the siding no one wants to pay for it. There is enough equipment for this extension on the current schedule . The equipment would layover in VAC for 6 hours instead of BEL for 10 hours.

Talgo speeds do not exist on the track north of the border. The train is run at normal passenger train speed.

The Talgo tilt and light weight does help the schedule. Between Seattle and Portland there is about 30 min. difference between Talgo and conventional equipment. Between Seattle and Vancouver BC its about a 20 min. savings.

The Talgo trains burn about 40 gallons of fuel per hour when running on the PNW corridor.

When the Talgo is run with two locomotives it feels like you are getting into the high speed train business. A two locomotive train will knock off another 10 min. between SEA & PDX or VAC & SEA.

wigwagfan
Posts: 3341
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:57 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Post by wigwagfan »

Interesting locomotive pulling the Talgo

(Look at the fourth photo down on this page.) For the record, the 20 cylinder prime mover is long gone, replaced with a 16 cylinder courtesy of what was then Morrison-Kundsen.
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Erik Halstead - Portland, Oregon

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