Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

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gokeefe
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Re: Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

Post by gokeefe » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:32 pm

mtuandrew wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:37 pm
Something still smells rotten, like one or another company (or government agency) decided they financially would be better off abandoning the bilevels.
Nope. Nothing that I've seen it heard makes me suspect that. This was an engineering failure on a new design from Nippon-Sharyo (remember the "pinched nose" diaphragms?). The bi-levels remained financially advantageous to the end. Shorter trains, fewer wheels, more people.
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Re: Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

Post by David Benton » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:24 am

I would say Siemens would have offered a very good deal, as it took the heat off them having to prove the Chargers could meet the specified speeds with double deck cars. There was a lawsuit (from Caterpillar??) regarding the Chargers ability to meet the specs, did that disappear before or after the deal to go single level ?
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Re: Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:37 am

Backshophoss wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:01 pm
New York state now has to get in line with everybody else to get cars from Siemens,most likely after Amtrak's order.
BBD and CAF already can build full stainless shells in state (Plattsburgh and Elmira). NYS has a "made in NY" incentive program (see MTA for examples).
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Backshophoss
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Re: Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

Post by Backshophoss » Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:34 am

BBD is NO Longer an Amtrak approved Vendor/Supplier,CAF is tied up with the Viewliner II's and might not bid,
Alstrom is tied up with the Acela II's production

BBD is praying for that combined MN/ConnDOT MLV II clone order! :wink:
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WhartonAndNorthern
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Re: Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

Post by WhartonAndNorthern » Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:34 am

Backshophoss wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:34 am
BBD is NO Longer an Amtrak approved Vendor
Is that official or just your speculation? Certainly Amtrak and some of its current executives (others have moved on) haven't been fond of Bombardier's performance and past performance can be considered to determine if a bidder is "qualified."

I know Amtrak's spoken about one common PRIIA fleet for maintenance ease, but Siemens may be unable to supply the needs for all the states ready to buy cars. If NC or NY ends up with Bombardier coaches built to PRIIA single level specs, Amtrak will have little choice but to accept them.


On a different note, has NYS been working to increase speeds elsewhere on the Water Level Route? CSX had some "excessive" demands regarding track separation of dedicated high speed track, wrt. distance from their other tracks, while NY I believe only wanted to upgrade the existing route. I get that CSX (And NS in the case of Norfolk service) feel that there are fundamental incompatibilities with signal block length for slow freights and high speed passenger trains.

A lot of this was like three CEOs ago and the last CEO wanted to single track the route. Has NYS attempted to apply any leverage like property tax or corporate rebates or even threatened higher taxes to get what it wants? Or even threatened to park a National Guard tank across the RoW?

One plus is that the route is now PTC equipped so no need to install cab signalling. Maybe a few strategic NYS grants can at least get some class 5 track.

electricron
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Re: Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

Post by electricron » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:36 pm

WhartonAndNorthern wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:34 am
On a different note, has NYS been working to increase speeds elsewhere on the Water Level Route? CSX had some "excessive" demands regarding track separation of dedicated high speed track, wrt. distance from their other tracks, while NY I believe only wanted to upgrade the existing route. I get that CSX (And NS in the case of Norfolk service) feel that there are fundamental incompatibilities with signal block length for slow freights and high speed passenger trains.
A Has NYS attempted to apply any leverage like property tax or corporate rebates or even threatened higher taxes to get what it wants? Or even threatened to park a National Guard tank across the RoW?
The problem with using force to get railroad companies to do the political will of the government, like blocking the tracks with a tank, is how the railroad companies will react. You block my tracks, I (as a company) will go on strike against you! I wonder how fast the State of New York could survive without any train services at all ? How long before they starve to death? How long before their generators use up their fuel stockpiles? A few well placed trains blocking highways would block other modes of resupply as well, like interstate trucks and trucks servicing harbors.
Using forces is never the answer!
Raising taxes high enough to punish the railroad companies can also have just as bad results. If it is unprofitable for them to service you, they could decide to stop servicing you, pull up their tracks and signals, then abandon the right-of-way. Something they have done everywhere else when a rail corridor has become unprofitable to run or maintain.
Using too high taxes is never the answer!
I am not suggesting that is what they will do, but it is something they could do. Actions always have consequences, take the time to consider what could happen anytime you do something because what you expected may not be the results you wanted.
Last edited by electricron on Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

Post by Jeff Smith » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:38 pm

Nice debate. Let's get back to Empire Service. Thanks!
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mohawkrailfan
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Re: Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

Post by mohawkrailfan » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:00 pm

Is the Maple Leaf using dual-modes all the way to Toronto now? I heard 63 come through with 703 in the lead today. They used to change engines at Rensselaer.
Make a little noise at the flag location.

Hudson2640
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Re: Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

Post by Hudson2640 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:03 pm

The bridge into Canada is currently OOS so the train has been terminating in Niagara Falls. However, I have been seeing 281/ 280 running with a P42 West of Albany as of late.

MACTRAXX
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Re: Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

Post by MACTRAXX » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:30 pm

MR: I will second H2640 and mention that the Whirlpool Bridge at Niagara Falls is currently closed for
trackwork and renovation between September 9 and November 8, 2019. There is 9 days left for this
service change as of this post which ends on the weekend (Saturday-11/9) of 11/9 and 11/10.

https://www.amtrak.com/alert/whirlpool- ... rvice.html

Amtrak trains #63 and #64 are terminating at Niagara Falls, NY with a nonstop bus connection to Toronto.

I was surprised that no one mentioned this in any of the relevant topics previously...MACTRAXX
EXPRESS TRAIN TO NEW YORK PENN STATION-NO JAMAICA ON THIS TRAIN-PLEASE STAND CLEAR OF THE CLOSING TRAIN DOORS

Roadgeek Adam
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Re: Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

Post by Roadgeek Adam » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:18 pm

When I took the Maple Leaf on October 7, these were the engines.

Image
...they are solid plastic, so don't settle for imitation.

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