“Not allowed by law in the last car”

[Tadman]

That all makes sense, but they why not just say "welcome aboard, there is an equipment failure in the last car, don't use it" and lock the door? Veracity goes a long way. I'm not a stupid child. I'm a paying customer. I've seen air conditioning fail on the South Shore and they politely close the car and move passengers.

Couple that with the awful boarding procedure used nowhere else in the world and the mandate to drag your bags down four cars, it really gives the air of "we don't care". It was 90 degrees that day, the station a/c was on the fritz, and the last thing I want to my stuff a football field away through a car with people already seated.

Then you had the conductor tell the old lady in front of me she would have to buy another seat if she kept her heavy suitcase next to her. Just tell her you have to put it up, don't give her an ultimatum. I offered to put it up before he showed up, but she was confused and slightly scared. It sure wasn't worth an ultimatum and she wasn't giving attitude at all.

Bottom line, it's very rare to see that kind of crew attitude on another railroad or airline, especially with that consistency. It's a lot of officious crap that could be handled a lot better.

It's not the rules. I have no beef with the rules. It's the way the rules are handled.

[John_Perkowski]

Admin Note

Closed for housekeeping.

[Jeff Smith]

Reopened. To clarify, my interpretation is that the topic concerned the crew announcement "as a matter of law", and skepticism thereof, not about riding in the last car, merely the reasoning for the car being closed.

[ThirdRail7]

The timing of this was in line with this thread. As I mentioned when I stated

Ooorrr, it could be a non complying car, under CFR part 238 (cliff notes enclosed) that was flat shifted to the rear, tagged and therefore it can not be used.

When this happens at a turn around point, such cars are ROUTINELY tagged non complying, switched to the rear and hauled deadhead to the next repair facility since passengers are not allowed to occupy them.

, it occurred the very next day.


https://twitter.com/AmtrakNECAlerts/sta ... 6998665219

Train 176 will have no food service available between Roanoke (RNK) and Washington (WAS) due to equipment issues. We apologize for any inconvenience.

https://twitter.com/AmtrakNECAlerts/sta ... 6562857984

Train 176 is currently being delayed out of Roanoke (RNK) due to an equipment issue. We will update as more information becomes available.

They couldn't correct the problem at the outlying point, so the crew signed up, drilled out the cafe car, and positioned it to the rear since it can not be used for passengers. Upon arrival in DC, they cut the car off the rear and added a cafe to the head end during the normal engine change.

When the train arrived in BOS that night, they drilled the set to make sure the cafe was properly positioned for the next day.

[daybeers]

That all makes sense, but they why not just say "welcome aboard, there is an equipment failure in the last car, don't use it" and lock the door? Veracity goes a long way. I'm not a stupid child. I'm a paying customer. I've seen air conditioning fail on the South Shore and they politely close the car and move passengers.

Couple that with the awful boarding procedure used nowhere else in the world and the mandate to drag your bags down four cars, it really gives the air of "we don't care". It was 90 degrees that day, the station a/c was on the fritz, and the last thing I want to my stuff a football field away through a car with people already seated.

Then you had the conductor tell the old lady in front of me she would have to buy another seat if she kept her heavy suitcase next to her. Just tell her you have to put it up, don't give her an ultimatum. I offered to put it up before he showed up, but she was confused and slightly scared. It sure wasn't worth an ultimatum and she wasn't giving attitude at all.

Bottom line, it's very rare to see that kind of crew attitude on another railroad or airline, especially with that consistency. It's a lot of officious crap that could be handled a lot better.

It's not the rules. I have no beef with the rules. It's the way the rules are handled.

Yes yes yes! This is the #1 thing Amtrak needs to improve on in my opinion. Training/retraining costs very little comparatively and goes a long way.

[ExCon90]

It's been shown time and again in many places that being upfront with passengers, even (or especially) when the news is bad, works wonders in calming people down because most people tend to be reasonable when they know the facts. I've often wondered over the years whether the lack of announcements when something goes wrong (not a recent development) is attributable to a lack of confidence in public speaking on the part of train crews. I know some people are terrified at having to speak in public; maybe some coaching could go a long way here.

[justalurker66]

but they could just say the car is a deadhead and has no crew.

What does a band followed by stoners in VWs have to do with the car being closed? Not everyone knows what a deadhead is in railroad terms.

Your later version "there is an equipment failure in the last car, don't use it" is better but it puts the thought in the passenger's mind that there is something unsafe about that car. "The AC is out" or "the heat is out" would be better (even if the real reason was "the doors won't lock"). "Welcome aboard, we hope you don't die today" is also a true statement (in most cases) but not usually said.

If the last car was "reserved for crew" and the "equipment failure" line (or other safety related excuse) was used it would lead the passengers to wonder why the car is safe for employees but not for passengers. (And if there is a two cars per conductor rule shouldn't the conductor be in one of those two cars? Otherwise both cars are unmanned.)

[David Benton]

While i agree with Excon90's post , I think the original "we can't carry passengers in the car by law" announcement would suffice for your average Joe Public.
Its probably only railfans , and perhaps lawyers that would question what that law was.
Its certainly more info than the meaningless "due to unforseen circumstances" that is often announced elsewhere.

[Backshophoss]

It is not uncommon for commuter train crews to open as few cars as needed during "Off Peak" runs,for safety/security reasons
during "late night" runs mot of the passengers may be Drunk/High and my do something that will be regretted when hungover/sober
later on.......
There are times that "CRAP" happens and forces the car to emptied out,AC/Heat failures,door failures,etc,and the crews gets alot abuse
during moving people to other cars and are at their combined wits end. total
On most night/weekends/Hoildays there are no M of E people on duty at the far end point or tied up on other projects there.
That crew at their combined wits end are stuck with the same set back to home terminal....
They become so frazzled to the point of not being diplomatic,Just "Car closed!!!"
Having a rubber hose steam line get wacked off at a road crossing on a late nite trip home turned the car I was in into an ice chest,
the option was to ride in the smoking car in a seat or a standee in the front car as the rest of that train(8 cars out of 10 cars) was unheated
un till it made it to put jct for repair
Just happen to be the last train to have a Budd car connection to Dover Plains that nite.
This was back in the late PC era
The collection of passengers that were moved were a bunch of drunk office workers along with a bunch of theater patrons
heading home from a Broadway show,I was heading home after chasing down a part needed to fix a greenhouse vent motor
(cheaper to "go fetch" then ship it back then,was allowed to take the whole day ) total of 35 people to move

[Jeff Smith]

Or maybe they're using the last car to shoot adult cinema....

[mmi16]

While i agree with Excon90's post , I think the original "we can't carry passengers in the car by law" announcement would suffice for your average Joe Public.
Its probably only railfans , and perhaps lawyers that would question what that law was.
Its certainly more info than the meaningless "due to unforseen circumstances" that is often announced elsewhere.

John Q Public will then ask the question - WTF kind of law is that?

[Tadman]

Exactly. I don't write my customer service gripes from a buff perspective, I write them from a John Q Public "I'm tired of traveling and just want to get to my hotel" perspective, because that's usually what I am when aboard. If you ever see me on a train, there's a good chance my laptop is out and an overnight bag with either steel toes or suit and tie next to me. I mean in the overhead rack.