Anderson possible changes: Dismantling LD, Corridor, Etc.

[Nasadowsk]

Continue petitioning your elected officials (who work for you, by the way), and RPA to stop these proposed travesties.

Why?

Long distance passenger rail is a model that barely worked 40 years ago, and doesn't today. Everyone else is dumping the sleeper train, Amtrak should to.

It's time to move on from the 1950's.

[Rockingham Racer]

Everyone else is not dumping the sleeper train. Canada isn't, and Russia and China aren't. Let's not generalize.

[Rockingham Racer]

Long distance passenger rail is still working in other countries. Let's not over state the case.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Mr. Rockingham, while I cannot speak about Russia, let's speak of Canada, which does have a publicly funded "Luxotrain". However, this train, which seems to "run when it runs", is "not exactly" too much of a transport option for one desiring to travel from Portage La Prairie to Saskatoon. Australia has several private sector "Luxotrains" and does have a few State railroad Sleeper routes, such as Sydney-Melbourne.

On the European Continent, "the game is in the ninth". The Austrian initiative is simply picking up routes that ran East West through the 400 mile length of the country which only has H(er)SR. It’s a grandstand play using equipment they acquired from the State systems that simply wanted out, throw in some Blue paint and dream up a cute name like NightJet.

Obviously, the "new Sheriff in town" has alienated the "train loving community" - railfans and those who have found enjoyment in LD train travel. But Mr. Anderson is the Sheriff, and he and Mr. Nas are on the same page.

[RRspatch]

Continue petitioning your elected officials (who work for you, by the way), and RPA to stop these proposed travesties.

Why?

Long distance passenger rail is a model that barely worked 40 years ago, and doesn't today. Everyone else is dumping the sleeper train, Amtrak should to.

It's time to move on from the 1950's.

Sleeping car trains disappeared in Europe and Japan because Japan nations in Europe built high speed rail lines connecting major city that were formally connected by night trains. Looking around this country I don't see any Shinkansen lines, Ligne à Grande Vitesse, Schnellfahrstrecken or even an HS1. Since we don't have any of the above mentioned lines over night trains could still serve a market here in the states. There are lots of city pairs that could be served by a 12 to 14 hour over night train.

BTW - even the Chinese are running high speed over night sleeper trains on their network -

https://youtu.be/DAOYz8FcDiQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ryanov]

A certain crowd in this forum repeats that “sleepers are going away” garbage, you remind them “in favor of high speed rail. Where is ours?” You’ll receive no answer, and won’t hear from this crowd until they next time they write the same flawed argument.

[John_Perkowski]

Admin note:

Closed for moderator discussion.

[WesternNation]

I haven't been on here in a while but I have been following the developments that have been coming out of Amtrak for the last several months. Here's what I think. Please note: I haven't had the time to read through all 19 pages of posts yet, so I might be posting things that have been discussed already.

The RFPs: My bet is that Siemens will get the job for replacing Amtrak's fleet. The Chicago Hub corridors are already phasing them into service everywhere except the AML, where issues with ITCS prevent them from operating. (If I remember correctly, the MI Chargers aren't even in Chicago yet; they've been held in Pueblo until space is cleared with the redeployment of the P42s.) I haven't heard of any major issues in regards to the Chargers yet, but we'll just have to see. Also, I read somewhere on this forum about Amtrak only ordering 50-75 new engines. The post says a MINIMUM of 50-75. In addition to the new engine, Amtrak is also looking at new single level LD equipment to replace the Superliners.

DMUs: If Anderson thinks that DMUs are going to be good for things like the AML, then he's nuts. I rode in a DMU while I was in the UK a few years ago and I really wasn't all that impressed. I could understand using them for commuter services, but for intercity travel, it's just not the right way to go IMO. Besides, the major corridor states are already getting new equipment.

Dismantling LDTs: Again, not the right way to go, for now. I know that the LTDs tend to lose a lot of money but after traveling on 3 of the 4 western LDs (SWC, CS, and EB), I now realize how valuable they are to both passengers and communities. For some people, it is the only way they can travel due to money or lack of other options. For others, it's medical reasons. Even more just don't want to deal with the hassle of driving or dealing with airport security or the cramped quarters of a jet. These trains provide a lifeline for both communities and passengers who cannot/do not want to fly or drive. Abandon them, and you'll start seeing communities dry up in "flyover country".

Anderson in general: At first, I was against Anderson. An airline exec at Amtrak? It doesn't take much to realize what's wrong with that. But after reading the interview he and his CCO did with RPA as well as some of the other actions he has taken, I am now (cautiously) confident that he is making changes for the better. I like the look of the new Amfleets. Amtrak is buying new motive power for the first time in twenty years. They just got a record budget. This is the chance that Amtrak has needed since its inception to actually prove themselves.

The Charter Train/Private Car Fiasco: I agree with this decision to limit PV and charter trains. I'm sure you all know about the spat of accidents Amtrak had. The uninformed public, of course, immediately blamed Amtrak, despite the fact that only 1 out of the 3 accidents was actually Amtrak's fault (501). The other two, the GOP train hitting a truck and the Cayce accident were not Amtrak's fault. Anderson needs to prove that Amtrak can operate its current services safely and efficiently before going back and doing special things like PV and charter services. While I was on the CS, we had to drop a varnish car in the Oakland coach yard. It delayed us by 45 minutes, and we never made up that time.

Electrification: When I read this, I almost fell off the couch laughing. Amtrak doesn't have the money to electrify their entire network. The freight railroads wouldn't allow it either. It would cost trillions of dollars to electrify the entire US rail network and it would also present capacity problems, as now you can't run double-stacks. I read somewhere else about using batteries and stations as "charging points". I won't even go into that.

I think I hit about everything.

-WN

[Jeff Smith]

I've merged the Anderson topics.

WARNING: my fellow admins and moderators watch this topic. The topic is by nature political; that is NOT a license for political hyperbole'. Keep it related to the changes, but flames will be deleted and warnings issued.

[gaspeamtrak]

Everyone else is not dumping the sleeper train. Canada isn't, and Russia and China aren't. Let's not generalize.

The UK , Norway, Sweden, Finland and "Austrian "OBB" Nightjet Sleeper trains seem to be doing fine???

[Matt Johnson]

Everyone else is not dumping the sleeper train. Canada isn't, and Russia and China aren't. Let's not generalize.

The UK , Norway, Sweden, Finland and "Austrian "OBB" Nightjet Sleeper trains seem to be doing fine???

More to the point, Amtrak's services nationwide including long distance are reported to be experiencing ridership growth and are poised to become even better with the (delayed) addition of needed new sleeper capacity on the eastern long distance Viewliner trains. The demand is there to fill the sleepers, so these sudden strikes to immediately kill food service rather than introduce smaller reforms or to de-staff stations, kill the Pacific Parlour, pull out of agreements to contribute to Southwest Chief track improvements, etc. to me sure seem more likely to indicate a desire to kill Amtrak while the right has political power than any honest effort to build some meaningful legacy and contribute to the strengthening of passenger rail.

[gokeefe]

Having done my homework and skimmed through all 29 pages (so far ...) of this topic I'll add the following:

Anderson has chosen to take on the one and only service that Republicans in Congress are likely to protect ... The transcontinental long distance services.

In so doing he is placing the GOP majorities in an interesting bind. Attack Anderson and they are accused of supporting wasteful spending, support Anderson and they are accused of forgetting everyone "back home in Dodge". Try to stay quiet and the fires coming from the prairie will only burn brighter fanned by every local Chamber of Commerce executive who has ever had a passing thought about giving Senator Neveretire a run for their money in the primary.

I'm not saying I like or approve of the service charges but the political calculus is solid and Anderson can trade on his airline sensibilities to justify it.

[Matt Johnson]

I'm not saying I like or approve of the service charges but the political calculus is solid and Anderson can trade on his airline sensibilities to justify it.

I hold out some hope that he's playing political chess while we're all playing checkers, but at the same time I don't want to be naively optimistic while these very real downgrades are occurring.

[gokeefe]

"Occurring" is the key word. Look at how quickly his congressional hearings have turned nasty as the mere prospect of service reductions has been floated.

Right now Amtrak is proposing some of the most aggressive changes ever contemplated to the Southwest Chief. In essence it will end as a "service" or "route". What would replace it is hardly equivalent as a means of transportation.

The fact that Boardman had previously targeted the Chief makes for a convenient narrative of consistency that sees the Chief as the LD train with the most serious problems.

I think the Sunset Limited is actually the weakest by far but look at how few states it touches compared to the Chief. By contrast the Chief runs through the heartland and nets you Kansas, Iowa and Colorado which you would otherwise not get with the Sunset Limited.

Out of the above three Kansas is the one you want to hit. Ultra conservative legislative representation (Freedom Caucus) that will fight tooth and nail to keep the trains running through Topeka and Garden City. This is the contemporary equivalent of trying to cancel the Cardinal when Sen. Byrd was still alive and well. "Ain't gonna happen".

If we look at current budget outcomes and not proposals you can see that Amtrak has cashed in their chips for Gateway tunnel money that the White House won't be able to interfere with in exchange for "business as usual" on the Southwest Chief. There's some trench warfare underway with the TIGER grant and I don't doubt that Amtrak was ready to shift over to the Transcon a few years ago but for the moment to me it simply feels like "keeping up appearances".

"You kill Gateway and Topeka's service will be toast before you can say "continuing resolution" three times fast."

[electricron]

There are several alternate routes that could replace the Chief.
(1) The BNSF transon via Amarillo
(2) Resume the Desert Wind via Las Vegas
(3) Make the extended Texas Eagle a daily train via El Paso.
When the existing Chief turns east at Barstow instead of continuing northeast it misses a large tourist city called Las Vegas. Kansas City to Chicago is already served by the River Runner and subsidized by Missouri. There's no need to run the Chief east of KC, and Kansas should subsidize a train westward - how about subsiding an extended Heartland Flyer towards Wichita and OKC?

Colorado should be subsidizng a train from Denver to Pubelo along the eastern edge of the Rocky Mountains instead of subsiding a segment of the Chief within Colorado. Riders in southern Colorado can take the regional day train to Denver to catch the Zephyr to Oakland or Chicago.

I've written this before in this thread, don't get stuck on what is and look at what could be better in the very near future instead.