Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

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D.Carleton
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Re: Penn Station Trackwork

Post by D.Carleton » Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:18 pm

The consensus is NYP has overshot it's capacity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5XsTmzfqDs The time is long past for serious consideration as to why all of NJT and LIRR commuters must go to NYP. Diverting some LIRR trains to GCT will help. Even so, New York is of sufficient size to warrant a third major rail depot.

Backshophoss
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Re: Penn Station Trackwork

Post by Backshophoss » Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:25 pm

LIRR has some options,but you need to change to the Subway to cross under the East River.
ESA is still some what behind the "eight ball" construction wise,Hunterspoint Ave is a 2 track station,a quick connection to the #7 subway
is possible,but that's "overloaded" as well into Times Square.
The old ferry connection at Long Island City is long gone,and has limited amount of 3rd rail equiped tracks,and also feeds into
the "overloaded" #7 into Midtown Manhattan
"Alantic Terminal"(aka,Flatbush Ave) is possible for those that work in lower Manhattan,there you can connect to 9 different
Subway lines(B,D,N,Q,R,2,3,4,and 5),but is somewhat strangled for equipment storage trackage.
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peconicstation
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Re: Penn Station Trackwork

Post by peconicstation » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:48 am

Another story about upcoming Amtrak work around Penn Station and the Tunnels.
This could have a major impact on Amtrak NEC schedules all summer long.

NJ Transit has options (like diverting trains to Hoboken, and/or turning trains at Newark Penn), that Amtrak does not.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/t ... chaos.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Ken

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JamesRR
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Re: Penn Station Trackwork

Post by JamesRR » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:43 am

peconicstation wrote:Another story about upcoming Amtrak work around Penn Station and the Tunnels.
This could have a major impact on Amtrak NEC schedules all summer long.

NJ Transit has options (like diverting trains to Hoboken, and/or turning trains at Newark Penn), that Amtrak does not.
As mentioned earlier in the thread, Amtrak could reroute some Empire Service trains to GCT if they worked out a deal with Metro-North.

SwingMan
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Re: Penn Station Trackwork

Post by SwingMan » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:09 am

Hunterspoint Avenue is not a solution. The 7 is at 110% capacity into Manhattan, if you go down to Hunterspoint Avenue and Vernon-Jackson stations, people are having to wait for trains empty enough to board. Pushing more LIRR trains with 1000+ people into Hunterspoint Avenue is not going to fly for very long.

There is ferry service out of Long Island City, but it is quite limited and drops people on the East Side with a long, uphill walk into Midtown.

SouthernRailway
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Re: Penn Station Trackwork

Post by SouthernRailway » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:40 pm

Are the E/F lines at capacity? LIRR could terminate some trains at Jamaica and people could take the subway from there.

NYC clears out during August, so loads should be lighter, and perhaps people could just telecommute.

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STrRedWolf
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Re: Penn Station Trackwork

Post by STrRedWolf » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:03 pm

I just got another twist: Any bi-level cars on the LIRR (and they do run them into Penn) cannot run into the ESA tunnels. They're too big, per the LIRR Three-Track Main Line FEIS.

I'll say it for everyone here: What lame-brain made that decision?!?
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Nicholas Chen
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Re: Penn Station Trackwork

Post by Nicholas Chen » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:24 pm

ESA will use the 63rd Street Tunnel which was meant for subway cars (upper level) and M1/M3 cars on the lower level. C3 bilevel cars didn't exist yet at the time. However, I don't think that there are that many bilevel LIRR trains into Penn Station (are they rush hour only?), so this shouldn't be an issue.

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JamesRR
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Re: Penn Station Trackwork

Post by JamesRR » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:46 pm

adamj023 wrote:No need to rework Penn Station to push trains elsewhere. It will all be fixed mostly by summer with intermittent delays till 2018.
The discussion is around what to do WHILE the tracks are out of commission. The project will go all through summer, and individual tracks will be out of service for the next year at least.

Backshophoss
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Re: Penn Station Trackwork

Post by Backshophoss » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:10 pm

Most of the diesel service trains layup at Long Island City yard after discharging the passengers at Hunterspoint Ave.
Believe some of the peak service "thru" trains from Port Jefferson or Speonk layup at West Side Yard or are deadheaded
back east to Jamaica Yards
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MACTRAXX
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Re: Penn Station Trackwork

Post by MACTRAXX » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:13 pm

Nicholas Chen wrote:ESA will use the 63rd Street Tunnel which was meant for subway cars (upper level) and M1/M3 cars on the lower level. C3 bilevel cars didn't exist yet at the time. However, I don't think that there are that many bilevel LIRR trains into Penn Station (are they rush hour only?), so this shouldn't be an issue.
NC, RW and Everyone:

There are as of now two peak round trips from both Port Jefferson and Speonk for a total of four
daily trains. All four of these trains use 8 car sets of C3 cars with DM30s on each end. There is a
single through round trip to and from Oyster Bay which is 4 or 5 C3 cars with two DM30s at each
end. During the Summer months add the 12 car Cannonball which operates on Friday afternoons
eastbound and Sunday evenings westbound. This is literally the longest diesel train that the LIRR
operates requiring double stops at platforms to discharge 6 cars at a time. Any LIRR diesel train
longer then 6 cars is usually doubleheaded with two DM30s for through Penn Station trains or the
straight diesel DE30s for other trains.

I will second that when the 63rd Street Tunnel was constructed in the 1970s that it was designed
for the use of MU cars only long before there was any thought of dual mode locomotives and C3
cars which began LIRR service during the 1990s...MACTRAXX
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Re: Penn Station Trackwork

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:40 pm

MACTRAXX wrote:I will second that when the 63rd Street Tunnel was constructed in the 1970s that it was designed for the use of MU cars only long before there was any thought of dual mode locomotives and C3 cars which began LIRR service during the 1990s...MACTRAXX
The design was frozen in the late 60s (1968) just prior to construction and the tubes were designed to accommodate the M-1, nothing taller.
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twropr
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Re: Penn Station Trackwork

Post by twropr » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:31 pm

The NJ Transit website still makes no reference to schedule changes and merely advises riders of delays associated with trackwork at Penn Station.
We'll see what they come up with regarding schedule changes in the next few days.
Interesting about the pull-pull Empire trains so they don't have to yard at Sunnyside. I suppose 48/49 still go there because of the servicing on the sleeping and food service cars?
Andy

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Nicholas Chen
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Re: Penn Station Trackwork

Post by Nicholas Chen » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:00 pm

New NJ Transit timetables go into effect next Sunday (May 7th), however these timetables don't seem to address the track work.

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Re: Penn Station Trackwork

Post by Jeff Smith » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:11 pm

I note up-thread that Amtrak is now running push-pull Empire trains. Assuming this is using their version of the Genesis P32AC-DM, what are they using for a cab car? Where are they getting the cab-cars?

Assuming they could arrange to divert Empire trains, the Adirondack, and LSL, Ethan Allan, etc. to GCT, they'd need MNRR P32's with an MNRR engineer/pilot. I believe all MNRR P32's have been rebuilt; not sure if there are any available to lease. This could reduce the stress on the Amtrak P32's.

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