If you could restore a defunct Amtrak route

[bdawe]

I don't believe VIA has guaranteed access

[mtuandrew]

I don't believe VIA has guaranteed access

Ah - noted, and reinforced here: http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canad ... eal-report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still, it'd be a marginal increase for VIA over route segments they already run, in an era where their Feds (under the popular Trudeau deuxieme) seem willing to invest in infrastructure and transport. Amtrak would have a tougher time paying for Ontario trackage rights from the conservative US Congress, especially with the absolute uncertainty of the 2016 election results and the potential (unlikely) election of the Hon. Kasich - imagine how well he'd like for Amtrak to bypass Ohio entirely.

[bostontrainguy]

Who knew that the Rainbow would actually be something worth considering?

Even though I suggested it, I guess we can always call it something else

"21st Century Limited" is tops on my list.

[Backshophoss]

The Chicago-Toronto "International" was a joint Amtrak/VIA train with Crew change at the border,
both T&E and OBS,as is done with the Maple Leaf at the Falls.
If there's to be intra-Canada service,would VIA supply the cars? or Amtrak ??
Believe the HEP II and LRC cars that VIA has might not work well with Amfleet and Viewliner II cars.

[AgentSkelly]

Transport Canada last I checked allows two passenger trains to be coupled together; what you could do is Amtrak starts their train at Chicago, does its route to Detroit where it can pickup/discharge passengers still, but once it crosses at Windsor, any passengers getting off in Canada get off the train, do customs/immigration. While that is going on, VIA will couple on their equipment, the Amtrak side of the train is "sealed" until Niagara Falls, NY where VIA removes its side and the train continues onto to NYP.

[electricron]

Ian't the purpose of sending a train anywhere is to not only serve passengers but to serve towns and cities along the route? Depending upon the exact route selected, this sealed train passes through at least a half dizen Canadian cities worthy of service where half the train is sealed. A past example of a sealed VIA train through Maine visited no Maine city worthy of service. A present example of a semi-sealed train, the Cascades, in British Columbia at least serves a terminal station, i.e. Vancouver. are there any milage and time savings gained by sending an Antrak train along the north shore of Lake Erie vs the south shore? At least along the south shore the train doesn't need to be sealed, and both passengers and cities along the route are fully served.

I'm not so sure VIA would wish to pull, for their purposes, a deadweight train behind their own train. Imagine the extra fuel being consumed and money wasted for no practical gain. None of the passengers in the deadweight train can board or alight, there's no additional fare income, and no additional tourist revenues gained. Here's an experiment you should try, tow an always empty school bus behind your car all the time and report any additional revenues you gain doing so.

[AgentSkelly]

1) That IS true, and for such a train, you need to satisfy both CBSA and US CBP regarding transit passengers; you require all passengers to be inspected so the entire train is open while in Canada, but would require re-inspection at US Port of Entry stations in Niagara Falls and Detroit in addition to requiring passengers to carry travel documents and filling out a declaration form OR you have a portion of the train sealed while in Canada and have a section available for local passengers. Or Amtrak could just not provide any service to Canadian locales and run a completely sealed train thru Canada.

2) I'm not sure of the time and distance specifics but I do know that its a less congested route that could be utilized correctly

3) The finances of a such a train I'm sure would be figured out between Amtrak and VIA if they want international service.

[bostontrainguy]

Ian't the purpose of sending a train anywhere is to not only serve passengers but to serve towns and cities along the route?

Apparently you never heard of the term "Express" train

[mtuandrew]

1. Good luck sending a passenger train through our northern neighbor, on a Crown Corporation's tracks, without at least offering to stop for passengers. Things were different under Canada Southern's, New York Central's, PC's, and Conrail's banners, since the track and all approaches were controlled by the same American-based corporation and (until the late years) CASO already operated a local intra-Ontario train to serve the few urban centers between Windsor and Fort Erie.
a) Besides, why wouldn't you stop? More passengers = more cost offset. I already laid out my reasoning as regards VIA, Ontario, and the Federal Government of Canada; it benefits everyone, particularly politicians.
b) I have a feeling that CBP and CBSA would be leery of a sealed passenger train regardless, and would want to poke around the baggage compartment before letting the train cross borders. May as well have them check fifty or a hundred passports too.

2. Seal most of the train at the border and keep a couple of cars (coach + sleeper) open. No cafe, diner, or baggage for the Ontario passengers, sorry. Since it's the middle of the night, that should be enough capacity for intra-Ontario, NY-ON, and ON-MI & westward passengers. If it isn't, Amtrak and VIA can agree on additional capacity or Toronto sections later.
a) And if VIA balks at staffing and paying trackage for a cross-Ontario train, Amtrak can offer its own equipment and fuel costs as offset. Maybe Amtrak could also staff the sealed part of the train? I'm not sure how that would work re: collective bargaining and Canadian MoT rules.

3. btg: Amtrak tried express Acelas; they found that it wasn't worth their time because too many passengers wanted intermediate points, or would just fly point-to-point. Why try to compete with Buffalo-Detroit redeye flights?

[bdawe]

Since it appears that the Canada Southern no longer exists in any through-state, our train would presumably use the CN lines running by way of Hamilton, Brantford, Woodstock, London, and Windsor. With a bit of Google-earthery, it appears that this route give 273 miles between Buffalo-Depew and Dearborn Station in Michigan. Chicago-Buffalo works out to 546 miles, versus 528 on the Lake Shore Limited.

If the Michigan Line can get a train to Dearborn in 5:08 (53 mph average), then it needs to get across Ontario to Depew in 5:08 as well to match the speed of the LSL, or 53 mph, which happens to be just under the average speed of the fastest Aldershot (near Hamilton)-Windsor trains (54 mph). It would seem likely that that a sealed train could make the trip, but you're getting under tighter and tighter constraints as you start having to deal with customs inspections or coupling VIA trains or making stops or CN interference

I would also note that VIA does not own the tracks, and CN is not a crown-corportation.

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

It's about time to add to the discussion changing it slightly.
Let's assume there are no existing long distance trains, and Amtrak had to start providing the service this year. Let's also assume Amtrak can access any train corridor. Let's also assume the existing regional trains receiving subsidies exist. Where would you run long distance trains today, and the logic behind your ideas.

I had mentioned I wanted to redo the Amtrak LD map so here goes:

Models:

California Rail Map: https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~atwu/maps ... -02-03.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
America 2050: http://www.america2050.org/pdf/2050_Map ... etwork.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
US High Speed Rail Association: http://www.ushsr.com/ushsrmap.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Main Lines:

Stage 1:

Blue Line: Boston - Providence - New Haven - New York - Newark - Trenton - Philadelphia - Wilmington - Baltimore - Washington - Richmond - Raleigh - Greensboro - Charlotte - Greenville - Atlanta - Savannah - Jacksonville - Orlando - Kissimmee - Tampa - West Palm Beach - Miami (Through Cars Newport News - Williamsburg - Richmond to Washington/New York, Through Cars Raleigh - Fayetteville - Charleston - Savannah, can go either north or south)

Red Line: New York - Newark - Trenton - Philadelphia - Lancaster - Harrisburg - Pittsburgh - Cleveland - Toledo - Detroit - Ann Arbor - Kalamazoo - Chicago (Through Cars Washington - Baltimore - Philadelphia to Chicago)

This gives Northeast-Florida/Southeast and Northeast-Chicago/Midwest and hopefully uses Amtrak owned routes along the NEC, Keystone, and Michigan.

Stage 2:

Green Line: Seattle - Portland - Eugene - Sacramento - San Jose - San Luis Obispo - Santa Barbara - Los Angeles - Anaheim - San Diego (Through Cars Reno - Sacramento to Los Angeles/San Diego)

Yellow Line: Chicago - Springfield - St. Louis - Kansas City - Tulsa - Oklahoma City - Dallas - Austin - San Antonio (Through Cars Houston - Dallas to Chicago)

Orange Line: Chicago - Des Moines - Omaha - Denver - Salt Lake City - Las Vegas - Los Angeles

This fills out the western side of the country.

Stage 3:

Pink Line: Boston - Springfield - Albany - Syracuse - Rochester - Buffalo - Cleveland - Columbus - Dayton - Cincinnati - Indianapolis - Chicago (Through Cars New York - Albany to Chicago)

Gold Line: San Francisco - San Jose - San Luis Obispo - Santa Barbara - Los Angeles - Phoenix - Tucson - El Paso - San Antonio - Dallas

Silver Line: Miami - Orlando - Tallahassee - Mobile - New Orleans - Houston - San Antonio (Through Cars Atlanta - Birmingham - New Orleans to Texas)

Purple Line: Minneapolis - Milwaukee - Chicago - Indianapolis - Louisville - Nashville - Chattanooga - Atlanta

Brown Line: Chicago - Champaign - Memphis - Jackson - New Orleans (Through Cars Dallas - Little Rock - Memphis to Chicago)

This fills in a lot of the missing major markets.

A few cities would gain Amtrak LD service (in some cases, service period). The Gold and Silver lines would improve travel in the South. California and Texas would be linked as would Texas and Florida (California to Florida would require one transfer in San Antonio between the Gold and Silver). The Gold Line would originate in San Francisco so the city can be served without detouring the Green Line. It also allows two separate trains from Northern California to Southern California.

[railgeekteen]

Floridan(via Atlanta), National Limited, Desert Wind, Pioneer, Lone Star, Sunset east

[Pensyfan19]

Since there seem to be a lot of creative open discussion questions on this forum, I figured I might do one of my own. Which route which was discontinued before or by Amtrak should be brought back? (Not counting already proposed or studied lines, such as the Gulf Coast Limited or North Coast Hiawatha)

[DutchRailnut]

another fantasy tread, how many new routes has Amtrak opened up ???

[Pensyfan19]

another fantasy tread, how many new routes has Amtrak opened up ???

Thanks for moving that question into this thread. Also to answer your question, amtrak receiving funding for new routes such as the one between New Orleans and Mobile would be considered a new route which amtrak "opened up" at this point. So would tge Quad Cities Rocket since that's going into some territory which was never previously owned by amtrak.