All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

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Matt Johnson
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Re: Pennsylvanian with six cars

Post by Matt Johnson » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:16 pm

I saw it at Trenton last night and indeed it did have an Amfleet I cafe, and had an identical consist to the Pennsylvanian aside from the baggage car. I'm wondering if this is a recent thing, as I recall the Palmetto having an all Amfleet II consist in years past.

jp1822
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Re: Pennsylvanian with six cars

Post by jp1822 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:44 pm

Matt Johnson wrote:I saw it at Trenton last night and indeed it did have an Amfleet I cafe, and had an identical consist to the Pennsylvanian aside from the baggage car. I'm wondering if this is a recent thing, as I recall the Palmetto having an all Amfleet II consist in years past.
The Palmetto and Pennsylvanian started to get a mix of Amfleet I and Amfleet II cars, which sort of made sense. Put the passengers travelling longer distances in the Amfleet II cars and the passengers travelling shorter distances in the Amfleet I cars. Both trains lost the half cafe/half business class car to a full business class car and a regular Amfleet I cafe/lounge. I don't ever remember seeing the Palmetto running with an Amfleet II cafe/lounge (as per the previous sentence). Moreover, most of the Amfleet II cafe/lounge cars are being converted to the Amfleet Diner-Lite configuration and only found on the overnight single level long distance trains.

The Adiondack also ran with a similiar consist of a mix of Amfleet I and Amfleet II cars of this same nature described above - just no business class. I actually got stuck sitting in an Amfleet I car between NYC and Plattsburgh, NY on my last trip. Typically they've seated passengers travelling that far, or north of Albany in the Amfleet II cars. But the Adirondack seemed to have lost some of its Amfleet II cars last time I was onboard.

So hopefully the long distance day trains that had this mix of Amfleet II and Amfleet I cars - Maple Leaf, Adirondack, Pennsylvanian, Palmetto - still maintain this balance. Ideally I would think these trains should run with a 1/2 cafe and 1/2 business class seating (with the 2-1 leather seats etc.), but Amtrak is somehow able to sell the train with a full business class car. A full business class car would almost be less attractive than an Amfleet II coach (for coach class passengers). The Amfleet II coach would have larger windows for one thing. And frankly, Amfleet business class cars have more to be desired. These cars all should be more like an Amfleet II and feature leather seating and perhaps even 2-1 seating etc. One can still sometimes search out an Amfleet business class car, operating for coach passengers in a regular NEC train set. This is why I'd love to see Amtrak truly distinguish its business class cars - different from an Amfleet I and different from an Amfleet II.

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Re: Pennsylvanian with six cars

Post by chuchubob » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:39 pm

Train 43 had two toasters on Saturday, presumably for an equipment move.

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Re: Pennsylvanian with six cars

Post by BuddSilverliner269 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:43 pm

chuchubob wrote:Train 43 had two toasters on Saturday, presumably for an equipment move.
And if theres no problems with the 2 motors, and the 2nd unit wasnt cathing a ride to NYP, chances are it will be the power for 89 on Sunday.

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Re: Pennsylvanian with six cars

Post by Tadman » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:04 pm

@ Mactraxx, I do remember seeing pictures of the Pennsylvanian with just two cars. I was astonished so few people could ride a train. Of course, at that time the Pere Marquette ran with 1-2 coaches and an automat car, so not much different. I do not remember the Fort Pitt train, never heard of it before today.
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Re: Pennsylvanian with six cars

Post by hi55us » Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:16 pm

chuchubob wrote:Train 43 had two toasters on Saturday, presumably for an equipment move.
It looks like the a1 coach was up front, with three a2's, an a1 cafe and an a1 biz class. I wonder if the people in the a1 business class car asked to move up to the a2 coach, since personally I find the a2 coaches more comfortable than the a1 business class.

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Re: Pennsylvanian with six cars

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:26 pm

jp1822 wrote:The Palmetto and Pennsylvanian started to get a mix of Amfleet I and Amfleet II cars, which sort of made sense. Put the passengers travelling longer distances in the Amfleet II cars and the passengers travelling shorter distances in the Amfleet I cars. Both trains lost the half cafe/half business class car to a full business class car and a regular Amfleet I cafe/lounge. I don't ever remember seeing the Palmetto running with an Amfleet II cafe/lounge (as per the previous sentence). Moreover, most of the Amfleet II cafe/lounge cars are being converted to the Amfleet Diner-Lite configuration and only found on the overnight single level long distance trains.
Prior to the Diner Lite program, what differences were there between the Amfleet I and Amfleet II cafe/lounges (other than the obvious two doors versus four)?
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Re: Pennsylvanian with six cars

Post by Silverliner II » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:40 am

Tadman wrote:@ Mactraxx, I do remember seeing pictures of the Pennsylvanian with just two cars. I was astonished so few people could ride a train. Of course, at that time the Pere Marquette ran with 1-2 coaches and an automat car, so not much different. I do not remember the Fort Pitt train, never heard of it before today.
The Fort Pitt didn't last for very long. I didn't even realize at first that it spun off the WB Pennsylvanian after arriving in PGH, then went to Altoona and laid over for the night there. In the morning it did a WB Altoona-PHG trip, and spun for the EB Pennsylvanian.

I was a regular on the Pennsylvanian during my college years when it was still 46/47/246. Six car trains, usually packed was the norm from the late 80's through when I graduated in 1995. Thanksgiving holiday would see the addition of a 2nd locomotive and up to three more cars; in fact, my trip home from Pittsburgh to Philly on Thanksgiving Eve 1989 had a pair of F40's and 10 cars. They filled the rear six at Pittsburgh alone and used the three coaches ahead of the cafe to board intermediate stops; we had to double-stop Johnstown, Tyrone, Huntingdon, and Lewistown that day.

Speaking of the Pennsylvanian and Palmetto rotating equipment: the Pennsylvanian would occasionally rotate with the Maple Leaf as well. Back in September 2005, I rode the Maple Leaf from Toronto to NYP (consist was an Amfleet I cafe, three AII and one AI coach... guess what car most of us got cluttered in? After leaving Aldershot and making a quiet request to the VIA attendant, I moved to the AII coach ahead). Anyway, the next day, I was out at Paoli when the WB Pennsylvanian arrived with the same equipment I had just ridden in from Toronto on the previous day. I am betting the equipment off the Palmetto the night I arrived in NYP may have turned for the WB Leaf the next day....
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Re: Pennsylvanian with six cars

Post by SwingMan » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:31 am

hi55us wrote:
chuchubob wrote:Train 43 had two toasters on Saturday, presumably for an equipment move.
It looks like the a1 coach was up front, with three a2's, an a1 cafe and an a1 biz class. I wonder if the people in the a1 business class car asked to move up to the a2 coach, since personally I find the a2 coaches more comfortable than the a1 business class.

That's for local pax. Conductor trys to get short haul pax into that car.

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Re: Pennsylvanian with six cars

Post by SEPTAR3kid » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:52 pm

The westbound Pennsylvanian #43 had 7 cars today behind P42DC #168.

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Re: Pennsylvanian with six cars

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:48 pm

@Paoli, courtesy Lee King

4 Amfleet Is (one cafe), 3 Amfleet IIs
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Matt Johnson
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Re: Pennsylvanian with six cars

Post by Matt Johnson » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:13 pm

jp1822 wrote: I don't ever remember seeing the Palmetto running with an Amfleet II cafe/lounge (as per the previous sentence).
I'm pretty sure the Palmetto used an Amfleet II cafe back in the earlier part of the decade. This was when it also sometimes carried those express freight roadrailers behind the passenger cars.

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Re: Pennsylvanian with six cars

Post by jp1822 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:40 pm

Matt Johnson wrote:
jp1822 wrote: I don't ever remember seeing the Palmetto running with an Amfleet II cafe/lounge (as per the previous sentence).
I'm pretty sure the Palmetto used an Amfleet II cafe back in the earlier part of the decade. This was when it also sometimes carried those express freight roadrailers behind the passenger cars.
The Palmetto used to be the Silver Palm till around 2004 or so. It may have had an Amfleet II cafe/lounge then (i.e. before the Amfleet Diner Lite initiative kicked in). But as of late, it's had the Amfleet I cafe/lounge (tables on both ends) just like the Pennsylvanian that it shares equipment with.

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Re: Pennsylvanian with six cars

Post by strench707 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:15 pm

If the Pennsylvanian and Palmetto share sets why don't they just keep the baggage car on for the Pennsylvanian's runs? It would seem easier than taking it off unless another train needs it as soon as its off. That way there could be checked baggage service through to PHL from CHI without a trip through WUS or NYP. Considering the Pennsylvanian is operating at the Palmetto's exact same passenger capacity wouldn't there be enough volume to merit theoperation of the baggage car on both routes?

Davis

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Re: Pennsylvanian with six cars

Post by BuddSilverliner269 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:10 pm

Davis, there is talk of a bag returning to the Pennsylvanian but I will believe it when I see it.

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