Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

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mtuandrew
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Post by mtuandrew »

“Historical preservation” in architecture should mean “rehabilitation of a structure with its original decor, adapted for modern use and regulations.” For commercial structures it much more often means “remove a few cool fixtures for reuse, demolish everything but the interesting parts of the facade, and build an entirely-new building behind it.” Sometimes they keep the building but strip it down to bare brick walls, which is pretty disingenuous when the original walls were plastered, papered or painted, and had pressed metal or hand-carved wooden crown moldings.

Guessing you can tell how I feel about this topic :P

Anyway, the facades of the structures at the future Penn South will almost certainly be incorporated in a new station headhouse and mixed-use tower.

rvlch
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Post by rvlch »

I can say from first hand knowledge that nothing of the original 1920 interior ornamentation of 370/7 survives. Whatever hints might have been left in lobby were eliminated in the last fairly major renovation (“modernization for the 21st C”) about 5-6 years ago.

I would also strongly doubt (as there is nothing of particular significance to this facade I am aware of) that this 17 story 240 ft high monolithic facade would be preserved at the expense of open plaza and hopefully natural light amenities to the station, both of which are going to be worth floor area and/or tower height to the developers.

mtuandrew
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Post by mtuandrew »

rvlch wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:03 pm
I can say from first hand knowledge that nothing of the original 1920 interior ornamentation of 370/7 survives. Whatever hints might have been left in lobby were eliminated in the last fairly major renovation (“modernization for the 21st C”) about 5-6 years ago.

I would also strongly doubt (as there is nothing of particular significance to this facade I am aware of) that this 17 story 240 ft high monolithic facade would be preserved at the expense of open plaza and hopefully natural light amenities to the station, both of which are going to be worth floor area and/or tower height to the developers.
This is an instance where I wish we had the power to “like” posts, because there’s not much more to say. Except possibly, that it’s likely this building wasn’t built to be significant because it’s been assumed to be a filler until the neighborhood started booming like Park Ave around GCT.

amtrakowitz
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Post by amtrakowitz »

Greg Moore wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:29 pm
Oh agreed. ARC was a bad idea all around.

And yes, NJT can use these and if Amtrak goes with some sort of push-pull for Empire Service trains, that frees up tracks 5-6 quite a bit.

Just saying that run-through would give even more flexibility.

But anything that adds more capacity to NYP is probably a good thing.
How could Amtrak operate push-pull with Empire Service trains? The only way that could happen is if NY State somehow thought to invest in some kind of dual- mode DMUs (if third rail, would need to be able to bridge the third-rail gaps east of the platforms; but it is unlikely that the aforementioned stub platforms would have third rail just as Tracks 1-4 have none).

mtuandrew
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Post by mtuandrew »

amtrakowitz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:42 pm
How could Amtrak operate push-pull with Empire Service trains? The only way that could happen is if NY State somehow thought to invest in some kind of dual- mode DMUs (if third rail, would need to be able to bridge the third-rail gaps east of the platforms; but it is unlikely that the aforementioned stub platforms would have third rail just as Tracks 1-4 have none).
Why’s that? You could also invest in cab cars and dual-mode locomotives and get the same result.

njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Post by njt/mnrrbuff »

Amtrak's new equipment order to replace the Amfleet 1s could possibly be locomotive hauled push pull trainsets.

mtuandrew
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Post by mtuandrew »

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:21 am
Amtrak's new equipment order to replace the Amfleet 1s could possibly be locomotive hauled push pull trainsets.
Easily could be, yes. Whatever the case, Amtrak’s job is to increase throughput for the tunnels in particular, by:
-increasing capacity per train (Acela II is going to do this versus Acela I; a MU train would also do this versus locomotive-hauled equipment by trading the locomotive for a passenger car)
-increasing speed of boarding and alighting with more and larger doors & aisles
-increasing speed between stations, probably by increasing acceleration more so than increasing top speed
-manipulating fares to get a gentler set of ridership spikes (more midday riders as opposed to morning and evening)

They aren’t enough to obviate the need for Gateway, but a 5% increase in throughput would be major.

jamestrains1
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Post by jamestrains1 »

New Tunnel Renderings
NJBIZ
Murphy, Cuomo unveil picks to oversee Gateway Program projects

7 Oct 2019
https://njbiz.com/murphy-cuomo-unveil-p ... -projects/

Rendering 1
Image

Rendering 2
Image

Below is an older image of the new tunnel from the DEIS.
HUDSON TUNNEL PROJECT
Draft Environmental Impact Statement and Draft Section 4(f) Evaluation
Chapter 2: Project Alternatives and Description of the Preferred Alternative

19 Jun 2017
http://www.hudsontunnelproject.com/docu ... native.pdf
see pdf pg. 24
Image

amtrakowitz
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Post by amtrakowitz »

mtuandrew wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:16 pm
amtrakowitz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:42 pm
How could Amtrak operate push-pull with Empire Service trains? The only way that could happen is if NY State somehow thought to invest in some kind of dual- mode DMUs (if third rail, would need to be able to bridge the third-rail gaps east of the platforms; but it is unlikely that the aforementioned stub platforms would have third rail just as Tracks 1-4 have none).
Why’s that? You could also invest in cab cars and dual-mode locomotives and get the same result.
Same result as what? and what kind of dual-mode locomotives, that are in any way different from what the Empire Service trains use now? because those cannot operate push-pull to/from NYP as I noted before.

DutchRailnut
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Post by DutchRailnut »

part of new dual mode requirements in PRII are some kind of energy storage device to limp out of gaps.
So yes new generation of dual modes could operate with cab cars.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.

njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Post by njt/mnrrbuff »

Yes, there is a possibility that Amtrak could buy push pull sets not only for the Empire Service trains but the corridor trains that operate in
the Northeast in general.

EuroStar
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Post by EuroStar »

The tunnel continues to receive medium-low rating making it ineligible for federal funds.
The FTA on Tuesday again issued a “medium-low” rating to the tunnel project, still making ineligible federal funding — even if lawmakers can negotiate a budget that provides more funding to the project.
Frankly this is not very important at this point as the Environmental Impact Study is still nowhere close to ready and without it nothing can be done, even application for permits.

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JamesRR
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Post by JamesRR »

But the Portal Bridge North (replacement for current bridge) received an elevated rating making it eligible. And Lord knows we need that replaced asap.

Pensyfan19
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Post by Pensyfan19 »

Even though this is probably the most urgently needed infrastructure project in the nation, the government still somewhat ignores it by placing it as a medium-low priority.

https://www.progressiverailroading.com/ ... ity--59730
"Look down, step over, and watch the gap!" - Dr. John Clarke, the Gap Rap, 2010

Sorry in advance if you do not agree with my opinion.

eolesen
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Re: Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

Post by eolesen »

Yes, I'm sure folks within 100 miles of Manhattan might think Gateway is the most important issue facing the country as far as infrastructure goes, but there folks in 46 other states who might see their own projects as more worthy...

New York has invested $13B in terminal improvements at JFK alone, yet can't seem to find anything for the Gateway?

Just this week it was another $3.8B for JFK: https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/govern ... mation-jfk

If NYS can find $13B for airport improvements, maybe it's time to hold Cuomo accountable and stop waiting for the Feds to pay up for rail.

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