N&W Y-6b usage

Discussion related to the Norfolk & Western, up to 1982. Also includes discussion of the Virginian Railway (1959); Wabash; Nickel Plate; Pittsburgh & West Virginia Railway; Akron, Canton & Youngstown Raiload (all 1964); and the Illinois Terminal (1981).
curmudgeon
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N&W Y-6b usage

Post by curmudgeon » Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:14 pm

Hi all -

I know that 'roads other than N&W used the Y-3 series of USRA 2-8-8-2,
but does anyone know if any other than N&W used the Y-4, -5 or -6 series, with the "speedcab" & wide Wooten-style firebox?

My Riva (Y-6b) is lettered for Pennsy, & they ran the Y-3, but I'm not sure about this later series on Pennsy.

Any info appreciated. :wink:

TIA.

regards,
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can avoid altogether."

curmudgeon
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jgallaway81
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Post by jgallaway81 » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:25 pm

The Y3 was actually the N&W's classification for the USRA Heavy 2-8-8-2 Mallet. (Acording to the book on the USRA 2-8-8-2 that I have) Any USRA mallet built would have been a Y3 on the N&W, and would have been classed differently on any other road.

The Y4, Y5, Y6a, Y6b and proposed Y7 all were 2-8-8-2 compound mallets with further refinments, upgrades & technological developments. Only N&W ever managed to create a stable, powerful drag 2-8-8-2. All the other roads never spent the effort on the compounds instead shifting to the easier to maintain simple expansion x-8-8-x (2-8-8-4 Yellowstones & 4-8-8-2 Cabforwards & 4-8-8-4 Big Boys)

Pennsy might have tinkered with their 2-8-8-2's, but nothing anywhere near the Y6b's ever ran PRR's rails unless they were leased during the after-war crunch during dieselization
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curmudgeon
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Post by curmudgeon » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:30 pm

Thanks for the reply, J.D. -

I know N&W released several 3's to various rr (including Pennsy's HH-1's) during the war, but suspected the 6B's were lettered for other rr simply to increase model sales - neither the first nor the last time, I'm sure.

Informative site for anyone interested in N&W Y-series models:
http://www.ja-gps.com.au/n&w/y3model.html

regards,
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can avoid altogether."

curmudgeon
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timz
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Post by timz » Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:50 pm

jgallaway81 wrote:The Y4, Y5, Y6a, Y6b and proposed Y7 all were 2-8-8-2 compound mallets
The Y7 was to be a simple 2-8+8-2.

curmudgeon
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Post by curmudgeon » Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:09 pm

Just to clear up a minor point -

Was the USRA 2-8-8-2 adopted as the Y-3 on N&W, or did the Y-3 become the USRA mallet?

Which came first and were they exactly alike?

And did N&W use the dash ("-") in their classifications?

Thanks.
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can avoid altogether."

curmudgeon
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dinwitty
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Re: N&W Y-6b usage

Post by dinwitty » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:25 am

THE USRA 2-8-8-2 was a standardized design by the government critical for the war effort, N&W upped on its design for their own line since they had heavy grades to contend with and needed a solid locomotive for it. N&W sold off the earlier engines since the newer engines were far better.

The 2-8-8-2's however appeared far earlier than WW2 so its likely somewhere the government looked at designs and chose one.
But I couldnt point my finger saying they said chose a Y3 for the design, as there were other 2-8-8-2's out there non N&W, but USRA design.

pennsy
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Re: N&W Y-6b usage

Post by pennsy » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:31 am

PRR did in fact run Y-6B's. They didn't own them, they did own a piece of N & W. So these were leased engines used when the PRR needed additional horsepower. Since PRR had "sticky fingers" those Y-6B's undoubtedly spent the rest of their lives on PRR, and its subsidiaries, tracks.

curmudgeon
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Re: N&W Y-6b usage

Post by curmudgeon » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:56 am

Alan -

What is the source of your info?
I've not found any pix/documentation of other than Y-3's on Pennsy.

Thanks.
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can avoid altogether."

curmudgeon
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erie2521
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Re: N&W Y-6b usage

Post by erie2521 » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:12 pm

The URSA designs were for WWI, not WWII.

curmudgeon
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Re: N&W Y-6b usage

Post by curmudgeon » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:50 pm

This thread seems to maintain a little interest, so I'll have another go:

erie's right, of course, USRA was a WWI rationalization program, but there was a somewhat similar program during WWII to insure sufficient motive power on US railroads.
The link in an above post lists the various Y-3's engine #s & the other 'roads to which they went in WWI.

I still have found nothing to document *Y-6B's* on Pennsy.

I assume, since N&W developed the Y-3 from their own earlier designs, that the USRA design was slightly modified FROM the Y-3.

regards,
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can avoid altogether."

curmudgeon
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yardboss

Re: N&W Y-6b usage

Post by yardboss » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:37 am


curmudgeon
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Re: N&W Y-6b usage

Post by curmudgeon » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:16 am

Sorry, yardboss, but 3700's not a Y3 2-8-8-2 (Pennsy class HH, rn's 373-379), its Pennsy's 2-8-8-0, class HC.
Here's a sideview showing it clearly.


HC1 2-8-8-0.jpg
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"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can avoid altogether."

curmudgeon
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curmudgeon
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Re: N&W Y-6b usage

Post by curmudgeon » Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:35 pm

FWIW, according to "N&W Steam - the Last 25 Years" (Rosenberg & Archer):

The Y3 (50 units -rn's 2000-2049) was a USRA design (perhaps influenced by, but developed apart from N&W).
The Y3a (30 units - rn's 2050-2079) was identical (sic), built for N&W in 1923 after USRA control ended.

regards,
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can avoid altogether."

curmudgeon
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steamtown
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Re: N&W Y-6b usage

Post by steamtown » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:39 pm

During WWII N&W wanted to build more "Y" class locomotives, specifically, beginning with the Y6. Because of wartime rationing, the government would only allow N&W to do this if they first sold a predetermined number of existing "Y" class locomotives first. They sold a number of "Y3's" to Pennsylvania, and I am almost positive some were sold to the U.P. and possibly Santa Fe, and Rio Grande. After the sale, N&W was allowed to continue the latest production of "Y" class locomotives.

mp15ac
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Re: N&W Y-6b usage

Post by mp15ac » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:03 pm

steamtown wrote:During WWII N&W wanted to build more "Y" class locomotives, specifically, beginning with the Y6. Because of wartime rationing, the government would only allow N&W to do this if they first sold a predetermined number of existing "Y" class locomotives first. They sold a number of "Y3's" to Pennsylvania, and I am almost positive some were sold to the U.P. and possibly Santa Fe, and Rio Grande. After the sale, N&W was allowed to continue the latest production of "Y" class locomotives.
I believe that the diposition was as follows:

6 Y-3 went to Pennsy;
8 Y-3 went to Santa Fe, with 7 being resold to the Virginian;
5 Y-3 went to the UP (along with 30 C&O H-7 2-8-8-2)

15 Y-2 went to the D&RGW
2 Y-2 went to Bingham & Southern

Stuart
The light at the end of the tunnel may be the headlight of an on-coming train.

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