Names of Trains

[Robert Paniagua]

Or how about the original name 20th Century Ltd. It's the same 960-mile route from NYP to CHI

Although the 20TH CL originally started at GCT, it's still the same distance out from NYP...

[John_Perkowski]

Actually, THE TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED (I know the NYC rules for this train ) was itself a rename...

The old name (as in 1899 and earlier)?

The Lake Shore Limited!

[Robert Paniagua]

Ah Hah!!! So the Original name, after all IS the Lake Shore Limited, but they wanted to rename it for the 20th Century! Wow, I learn something new everyday!!

[prr60]

Actually, THE TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED (I know the NYC rules for this train ) was itself a rename...

The old name (as in 1899 and earlier)?

The Lake Shore Limited!

In 1950 there was both a Twentieth Century Limited and a Lake Shore Limited on the NYC schedule. By 1965 the Lake Shore name had disappeared.

[EastCleveland]

Actually, THE TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED (I know the NYC rules for this train ;) ) was itself a rename...

The old name (as in 1899 and earlier)?

The Lake Shore Limited!

My historical two cents regarding the train's name:

It's true. The New York Central's Twentieth Century Limited and Lake Shore Limited remained two separate trains (and departed from Grand Central Terminal only 30 minutes apart) right up until 1960 or so, when the LSL vanished from the schedule.

Here's a link to the New York-Chicago page from the New York Central's 1954 passenger timetable, which shows both trains:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-ptt54p15.gif

---------------------------------------------

[Tadman]

There's a reason why the NY-CHI train is not called the 20th Century Limited, as there is a reason whye CHI-NOL and CHI-LA are not the Panama and Super Chief, respectively. These trains represented the best of the best, in the way the Rolls-Royce represents the best car or Michelangelo represents top grade art. Just as you wouldn't want a Chevy Malibu - a good car in it's own right - to be called a Rolls-Royce, or a average painting to be a Michelangelo, it would be a travesty to represent a modern Amtrak train is the finest there ever was. Names accure equity, and connote something special. When they are used too broadly to cash in on that equity, the name is ruined. The Chrysler Imperial was once a competitor to Cadillac and Lincoln. After its transition in the late 1980's to a relatively cheap car, the name means nothing to my generation or really even my father's generation. If LSL were to be renamed the Century, the name would be wrecked.


This isn't to say the LSL is a piece of crap, it's just not where you'd find Cary Grant or the Jack Welch of the 50's.

[TomNelligan]

Actually, if I remember my 1970s history correctly, the reason the Super Chief name wasn't used is indeed that the Santa Fe wouldn't permit it ,since Amtrak didn't meet AT&SF's luxury standards. But the Chicago-New Orleans overnight train was briefly called the Panama Limited until Arlo Guthrie's hit version of the Steve Goodman song led Amtrak to make a popular change.

[prr60]

Actually, if I remember my 1970s history correctly, the reason the Super Chief name wasn't used is indeed that the Santa Fe wouldn't permit it ,since Amtrak didn't meet AT&SF's luxury standards.

For about three years the train now called the "Southwest Chief" was called the "Super Chief".

When Amtrak took over operation of the ATSF trains, the name "Super Chief / El Capitan" was retained. In the last few years of ATSF operation, the all-sleeping car Super Chief had been combined with the top-end all coach El Capitan. In 1973 Amtrak shortened the name to just the "Super Chief".

In 1974 the ATSF withdrew Amtrak's right to use any train name with "Chief" because of their disapproval of Amtrak's quality of service. On May 19, 1974 Amtrak renamed the train the "Southwest Limited". After introduction of Superliner service, the ATSF permitted Amtrak use the name "Chief" but not to use any actual ATSF train names. Amtrak renamed the train "Southwest Chief" in October of 1984.

[Irish Chieftain]

There's a reason why the NY-CHI train is not called the 20th Century Limited

Well, for about half a decade now, it's been the 21st Century… and calling something by the name "20th Century" would be a little too "retro"…

[John_Perkowski]

Moderator's Note:

Split from the Lake Shore Limited thread, moved to Mr Benton's Rail Travel and Trip Reports forum.

[henry6]

Face it: there are no trains on Amtrak equal to The Century, Broadway, Super Chief, Southern Crescent, et al.

[matthewsaggie]

Actually, if I remember my 1970s history correctly, the reason the Super Chief name wasn't used is indeed that the Santa Fe wouldn't permit it ,since Amtrak didn't meet AT&SF's luxury standards.

For about three years the train now called the "Southwest Chief" was called the "Super Chief".

When Amtrak took over operation of the ATSF trains, the name "Super Chief / El Capitan" was retained. In the last few years of ATSF operation, the all-sleeping car Super Chief had been combined with the top-end all coach El Capitan. In 1973 Amtrak shortened the name to just the "Super Chief".

In 1974 the ATSF withdrew Amtrak's right to use any train name with "Chief" because of their disapproval of Amtrak's quality of service. On May 19, 1974 Amtrak renamed the train the "Southwest Limited". After introduction of Superliner service, the ATSF permitted Amtrak use the name "Chief" but not to use any actual ATSF train names. Amtrak renamed the train "Southwest Chief" in October of 1984.

And the Texas Chief became the Lone Star in '74.

[John_Perkowski]

The Coast Starlight was a 1940s/1950s era train operated by the SP on their Coast Lines. It shares the run with AMT 11/14 LA-San Jose.

The California Zephyr runs its original route to Winnemucca, NV, and thereafter takes the ex-SP over Donner.

John Perkowski