What was the best pre-Amtrak passenger railroad and what did it offer that Amtrak doesn’t?

[SouthernRailway]

Out of all of the railroads that ran passenger trains in the couple of years before May 1, 1971 (or a later date when they joined Amtrak), what was the best railroad? And why: what did it offer that Amtrak does not?

Thanks.

[Engineer Spike]

I’ll bite. How about the New Haven? Their main line is now part of the Northeast Corridor. They had through sleeping car trains in conjunction with the PRR down to Washington, and with the B&M, CV, and CN to Montreal.

Amtrak has their high speed trains on the route. You pay a few bucks more for “business class”, such as it is. The old trains drawn by a set of Alco PA1s might not have been as fast, but far outpaced Amtrak in panache. The important trains had parlor cars, the lounge cars had a real bartender, who could mix up whatever the passenger wished. With Amtrak, you’re lucky if they might have some vodka, and maybe some tomato juice to make a half assed Bloody Mary.

After throwing back a few highballs, it was time to eat. Amtrak can’t make up it’s mind about food. I think even the long distance dining cars have about three dishes which they’ll microwave for the customer. New Haven prided itself on its food. Since the route followed the shore, they specialized in seafood. Everything was done with class. There was a high class clientele, and they wanted the best. Serving two of the largest cities in the US really demanded superb service.

[SouthernRailway]

Great post; thanks!

[Arlington]

Define "best"

[mtuandrew]

Define "best"

Counterpoint: you define “best” as it makes sense to you!

[SouthernRailway]

Define "best"

Counterpoint: you define “best” as it makes sense to you!

Agreed: I’d define it by “highest-quality service” but to each his or her own.

[Arlington]

Ok, what are some suggested dimensions of service quality?
Food & Beverage (ingredients, prep, presentation)
Staff (helpfulness, precision)
Onboard accomodations
Transportation (speef, precision)
Stations (location, amenities)

[GWoodle]

Out of all of the railroads that ran passenger trains in the couple of years before May 1, 1971 (or a later date when they joined Amtrak), what was the best railroad? And why: what did it offer that Amtrak does not?

Thanks.

Difficult to miss ATSF. Ride the Super Chief El Capitan Chicago to LA. Texas Chief Chicago to Dallas & Houston. Clean washed highliner stainless steel before Amtrak got Superliners. Sadly, the fleet was broken up by Amtrak to fill other lines. Hard to beat classic red warbonnet paint. An element missing today is a sense that this was a premier train running on their line ATSF could take pride in.

Probably the only advantage to Amtrak today is moving the train to Chicago Union Station then using the Burlington lines to Galesburg. Not sure how many got on between Joliet & Galesburg.

[ExCon90]

The Union Pacific always seemed to get second billing behind ATSF, but they ran a superb service. I used the City of LA quite a number of times (because they honored foreign half-rate orders on 103 and 104 whereas on the Santa Fe foreign-road employees could only ride the Grand Canyon and the California Limited), and it was a fine experience. I think UP had the edge in one respect: the dome diners were unique, and very well designed, organized, and managed, the orders being phoned down below by the waiter working the dome and sent up by dumbwaiter to a sort of pantry shelf up front at the leading edge of the dome. The steward wore morning coat (with carnation) and striped trousers for breakfast and lunch, and black tie at dinner; I think that on both roads the dining-car steward was regularly the best-dressed man on the train--and this in a very much suit-and-tie-for-travel era.

[Tadman]

Seems to me that the Century and Super Chief were the absolute top tier of service, followed closely by the Panama.

Then there's a second tier of still very good service such as Broadway, Builder, Chief, Merchants, etc...

The last five years prior to Amtrak a lot went haywire, as certain roads like MP, PC, SP were actively trying to drive away the business. Other roads were fair but very pragmatic like KCS. It was not deluxe accomoddations or service but it was pretty reasonable.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Unfortunately, there was noticeable downgrading on the UP "before the end". The biggest loss of course was withdrawing the Dome Diners somewhat before the end.

While the "City of Everywhere" adding and cutting of cars was masterfully choreographed (I observed it on enough occasions during '68-'69 at Ogden), it still made for a cumbersome train - and whacking the Dome Diners made it even harder to get fed. I'm sure Amtrak's "Everywhere West" #5-6 was an Abbott and Costello skit in comparison.

The GN and NP had badly downgraded both the Builder and North Coast before "The End". The Menk-era NP "Lounge in the Sky" was akin to UNOHOO's "First Class Lounge" and "Fresh and Contemporary".

But there was always the ATSF and SCL that held "the game wasn't over until the last man was out". No wonder both roads gave strong thought to staying out, but finally made the dollars and cents decision to sign up.

[CarterB]

Can't beat the service on the IC Panama Ltd, City of Miami and City of New Orleans right up to the end.

[GWoodle]

Unfortunately, there was noticeable downgrading on the UP "before the end". The biggest loss of course was withdrawing the Dome Diners somewhat before the end.

While the "City of Everywhere" adding and cutting of cars was masterfully choreographed (I observed it on enough occasions during '68-'69 at Ogden), it still made for a cumbersome train - and whacking the Dome Diners made it even harder to get fed. I'm sure Amtrak's "Everywhere West" #5-6 was an Abbott and Costello skit in comparison.

The GN and NP had badly downgraded both the Builder and North Coast before "The End". The Menk-era NP "Lounge in the Sky" was akin to UNOHOO's "First Class Lounge" and "Fresh and Contemporary".

But there was always the ATSF and SCL that held "the game wasn't over until the last man was out". No wonder both roads gave strong thought to staying out, but finally made the dollars and cents decision to sign up.

A good question may be the difference from 1955-1971 when the UP trains operated on Milwaukee Road vrs C&NW. Then you had MILW repaint into yellow UP colors from older orange/maroon. Maybe in 1955 MILW was in better shape but slowly downgraded into the 1960's. In talking about MILW passenger equipment, you have a lot of distinct homebuilt cars not seen anywhere else. I suppose the cars were too different to survive into the Amtrak era.

[D Alex]

My dad (now deceased) grew up in Philadelphia and his first actual job was as a 'boilerman's assistant' at the Pennsylvania Railroad's roundhouse. During the war, he was stationed in Chicago (navy), his mother was stationed in St. Louis (army), and his grandmother in Philadelphia and his father in Brooklyn. As a result, he took a lot of trains. On one of his trips back to Chicago, he decided to take the B&O, because they were considered the best road for service. The trip was several hours longer than either the Pennsylvania or the NYC would've taken, but he said it was worth it, even though the Pullman ticket was pricey.

OTOH, everybody knew that the Erie was the WORST railroad....

[Gilbert B Norman]

. In talking about MILW passenger equipment, you have a lot of distinct homebuilt cars not seen anywhere else. I suppose the cars were too different to survive into the Amtrak era.

Mr. Woodle, only several MILW Super Domes found their way on to Amtrak's roster. Those were three that were acquired from Princess Tours after their OAK-LA "luxoserv" bellied up. They became Sleeper Diners on the Auto Train circa '94, when I rode.