"Wilkes-Barre & Eastern" at Wilkes-Barre?

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henry6

AGAIN THE

Post by henry6 » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:24 pm

Again, The Railroadians' book will best give you the details you are looking for so you should seek it out. In the meantime, remember the Erie once owned the NYS&W-WB&E, I believe up to the late 30's, so the indication would be correct.
Also, in the area rail lines were planned, laid, ripped up and relaid, forgotton, and relaid, etc. Owners and charters changed, and some of the lines were built on former gravity railroad right of ways. If you are looking at topo maps, and others, the initial date of the map may be right with corrections and additions made at later dates; these later changes should be noted or footnoted someplace. If not, then the former statement applies.

Most important though, is for you to find a copy of the book.

pumpers
Posts: 2095
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:56 pm

Post by pumpers » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:30 am

I did more snooping on-line -- it seems clear that WBE never made any connection over to the PCC #14 breaker at Plains Junction or similar.
I looked at the 1939 aerial pictures on Penn Pilot (a few years after WBE ended I think) and there is no trace of any ROW from the WBE going over to the Erie Wyoming Division or to the breaker.

ALso, a few posts on other forums are very clear about this
as well -- saying that the gingerb site is confusing and that there is
misinformation out there.

http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?bo ... 1143585770
See the last post at the bottom of the page - March 29, 2006

http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?bo ... 1087701252
See the last post on page 1.

ALso, from reading these and elsewhere -- The Erie Wyoming Division had through trains that ran south through the Plains Jct. connection onto the CNJ Canal Branch (part of the former Nanticoke RR), and then continued through Miners MIlls onto the CNJ Nanticoke Branch to get to Ashley Yard.

There was also some interchange between the Erie and LV at Plains Junction (site of 14 breaker) as well.

JS

frank754
Posts: 235
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:58 am
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA formerly New Jersey

Re: "Wilkes-Barre & Eastern" at Wilkes-Barre?

Post by frank754 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:32 pm

So basically a few things are unclear for me (from Plains to Kingston).
According to this text about the WBCRR:
DEVELOPMENT OF FIXED PHYSICAL PROPERTY
Construction was begun in 1913. Trackage rights were obtained over a portion of the railroad of the Northern Coal and Iron Company between Buttonwood and the Plymouth branch of the carrier, about 1.6 miles, and over a portion of the line of the Wilkes-Barre and Eastern Railroad Company from a point 0.75 mile west of Plains Station (most likely NC Tower) to a point 0.25 mile >>>west of a bridge over the Susquehanna River<<<, about 0.854 mile. The total of 2.454 miles of road thus obtained was rehabilitated and improved to meet the general plan of construction adopted by the Wilkes-Barre Connecting, which charged the recorded expenditures as improvements on leased railway property. The entire line of 6.641 miles was completed and placed in operation on March 29, 1915.

Does this indicate that the actual bridge in use today to the gauntlet was constructed by the WB&E? If so, when was it constructed? The actual WB&E line in Kingston just west of the bridge " 0.25 mile west of a bridge" was entirely different from the WBCRR elevated route today. From a Google Earth (recent rendering) of historic lines, from James Street the original WB&E line continued down 3rd (just a bit) then to a depot adjacent to Market and North Dawes.
Another post says:
Fredericks notes that Plains became the western terminus of passenger service "when the Susquehanna River Bridge became unsafe for passenger trains". As of 1914, the WB&E still owned the Kingston station, which was "occupied by a truck farmer who takes care of the property". However, the wooden trestle and track which had brought the line off the Susquehanna River Bridge to the station were removed in 1908. (n.b.: The line from "NC" tower to the junction for the station was originally WB&E; later leased to WBC and sold to it in 1939.)

Also:
*Plains station. No junction. Just north and slightly west of Hudson Yard. Line abandoned west of Plains 1926.
*Algonquin Switch. Joined the Wilkes-Barre Connecting RR at NC tower, about 800 feet east of bridge over LV and CNJ.

So perhaps, when WBCRR bought the ex-WB&E trackage , it bought the defunct trackage on both sides of the river and the new bridge we see today (along with the elevated "gauntlet") was built by March 1915 as part of the new WBCRR "improvement project (along with the elevated line we know now)?

pumpers
Posts: 2095
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:56 pm

Re: "Wilkes-Barre & Eastern" at Wilkes-Barre?

Post by pumpers » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:50 am

frank754 wrote: So perhaps, when WBCRR bought the ex-WB&E trackage , it bought the defunct trackage on both sides of the river and the new bridge we see today (along with the elevated "gauntlet") was built by March 1915 as part of the new WBCRR "improvement project (along with the elevated line we know now)?
I think you are right. The one thing i am not sure of is if the WBE tied into this new route in 1915 (near NC), or if by then the WBE ended a short bit further north at Plains.
JS

frank754
Posts: 235
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:58 am
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA formerly New Jersey

Re: "Wilkes-Barre & Eastern" at Wilkes-Barre?

Post by frank754 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:12 am

I think I've finally gotten the whole picture "almost right". I've spent many hours scouring just about every thread and website relating to the topic, over a period a several years. Please check this out, and if there's anything still up to question, please let me know. This is part of my big current project of Wilkes-Barre area rail history documentation and photos of what's left to be found:
http://viewoftheblue.com/photography/maps/wbcrr.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pumpers
Posts: 2095
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:56 pm

Re: "Wilkes-Barre & Eastern" at Wilkes-Barre?

Post by pumpers » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:23 pm

Frank, looks super. Wish I had seen something like that when I first started trying to understand the WB area trackage 10 years ago. Don't know where I can reference a map that shows it, but coming off of the LV passenger main to the east, just after it crossed on to the north side of Mill Creek, was an LV spur running east to Miners Mills, which ran next to the CNJ canal branch, between it and Mill Creek. At Miners Mills it ran right along side the mill, and the CNJ had a spur coming west off the Canal Branch, leaving from it I think just east of where Mill St crosses the creek, that dead-ended into the LV spur end to end I believe. JS

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