Southern Tier - East of Binghamton

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sd80mac
Posts: 1914
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:28 am
Location: Rochester, ny

Re: Southern Tier - East of Binghamton

Post by sd80mac » Fri May 10, 2019 11:19 pm

rr503 wrote:Which line? CNYK line = southern tier.
no. Sparta line

rr503
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 4:13 pm
Location: North by Northwest

Re: Southern Tier - East of Binghamton

Post by rr503 » Sat May 11, 2019 1:00 pm

NYSW still uses the line through Sparta. Trains leave the tier at Campbell Hall and run down via the ex-LHR and then ex-NYSW from there.

sd80mac
Posts: 1914
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:28 am
Location: Rochester, ny

Re: Southern Tier - East of Binghamton

Post by sd80mac » Sat May 11, 2019 10:04 pm

Thanks for clear up. Now i get it.

markyk
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:16 pm
Location: LV mp19.3 Cranford, nj

Re: Southern Tier - East of Binghamton

Post by markyk » Wed May 15, 2019 8:39 pm

will this add a train or 2?

csx is developing one in Syracuse

is this a NS counter?

https://buffalonews.com/2019/04/15/ship ... authority/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.morethanshipping.com/port-o ... falo-port/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SecaucusJunction
Posts: 3082
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:40 pm
Location: NS Watchdog

Re: Southern Tier - East of Binghamton

Post by SecaucusJunction » Thu May 16, 2019 7:43 am

Hopefully this goes better than the first one...…
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.

rr503
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 4:13 pm
Location: North by Northwest

Re: Southern Tier - East of Binghamton

Post by rr503 » Thu May 16, 2019 10:57 am

Assuming rail volumes get up to projections, 82 containers/day is nothing. That's 41 wells on the back of an existing CSX IM train. NS would need a massive volume commitment between somewhere that can't be got to easily via the Lehigh Line and NYC and would moreover need to actually want to take that commitment and not pawn it off to CSX because muh up front costs. I just don't see that anywhere in the tier's service area.

SecaucusJunction
Posts: 3082
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:40 pm
Location: NS Watchdog

Re: Southern Tier - East of Binghamton

Post by SecaucusJunction » Thu May 16, 2019 11:49 am

NS could use the eastern Tier for zero capital costs. They pay no taxes on the line, even though they still own it. The line is generally good for 40mph and the NYSW runs trains from Sparrowbush to Binghamton in just over 3.5 hours. Slots can be set up with NJT on schedules east of Port Jervis (detours have gotten through with little problem). There is really no reason that NS could not run a train up the Delaware if they want to. They have "parallel" routes in many other parts of the country that they split their traffic. For most of the time since they split Conrail, NS did whatever they could to keep traffic west of NJ and then use the almighty Route 78 to get traffic in the area. What trains remained to Croxton/Erail were pathetically short and most trains were either terminated or significantly shortened in Harrisburg or Bethlehem. Virtually none of the "Crescent Corridor" North South traffic came east of Harrisburg and only 2% of NJ to Atlanta cargo is handled by rail (I actually thought that is probably generous). More recently cuts have been made to Bethlehem and Morrisville, neither of which handle TOFC anymore. Port traffic in NJ has been the only bright spot lately with 3x per week 242/243 added east of Harrisburg and 23M bursting at the seams. But with these railroads, if that traffic picks up, they'll shun other traffic to make room for it as long as they can keep their operating ratio at the lowest level possible and not raise their Capex number.
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.

rr503
Posts: 699
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 4:13 pm
Location: North by Northwest

Re: Southern Tier - East of Binghamton

Post by rr503 » Thu May 16, 2019 6:40 pm

There exists more than capital cost here. You'd presumably need to re-qualify crews, probably add crews to bases along the tier, and possibly would need a new train start, if none could be peeled off the Lehigh as you suggest. You'd also have to spend more on fuel (Tier profile isn't that forgiving, and if this train is a peel-off from the Lehigh, is also longer), etc etc. Of course there may be revenue potential to be had here, but the name of the game these days seems to be cutting cost -- so I'd imagine it's just these things that NS would see, especially given that CSX is already better equipped to carry this traffic.

NS's relationship with NJ intermodal traffic is one of the more interesting stories of the past 20 years. To be fair to them, there's a lot to be said for aggregating in Harrisburg -- you can pull from a massive swath of the northeast with a minimum of terminals, drivers don't have to deal with Newark/Jersey City area congestion -- but I've gotta wonder what the actual economics look like. What are the marginal costs of operating trains to NJ vs trucking there vs potential revenues?

pumpers
Posts: 2094
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:56 pm

Re: Southern Tier - East of Binghamton

Post by pumpers » Thu May 16, 2019 8:18 pm

markyk wrote:will this add a train or 2?
csx is developing one in Syracuse
is this a NS counter?
https://buffalonews.com/2019/04/15/ship ... authority/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...
This article says "Buffalo is part of the third-largest and fastest-growing metropolitan region in North America — the horseshoe zone stretching from Toronto to Rochester."
Wow, I find that hard to believe - especially with so much going on in the south and west of the US.

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