New York State Roundhouses

Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

User avatar
RussNelson
Posts: 3848
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:20 am
Location: Elmira, NY

New York State Roundhouses

Post by RussNelson » Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:16 pm

I want to start a project to document the location of New York State Roundhouses. As long as we're documenting the locations, we might as well document other features. Here's what I propose, following the comma-separated format of the Thruway crossings post:

Lat,Lon,Community,Owner,Bays,Diameter,Table length,Date built,Date demolished,Status,Comments,URL

Lat,Lon - in NAD83 (GPS) decimal degrees format, centered on the turntable. I use ACME Mapper.
Community - the name of the location (e.g. Selkirk)
Owner - Name of the owner (or branch or subsidiary, e.g. RW&O) when it was last used by a railroad
Bays - the total number of bays served by the same turntable
Diameter - Not quite sure what to use here because not every bay was the same length.
Table length - in feet, at least until the US changes to the metric system.
Date built - in mm/dd/yyyy format. If you don't know the day, use mm/yyyy. If you don't know the month, use yyyy.
Date demolished - leave blank if any portion of it still stands, use a question mark if it's been demolished but you don't know the date.
Status should be one of:
  • Active - if currently being used by a railroad
  • Reuse - if in non-railroad use
  • Idle - if it seems to be unused or used for storage
  • Ruins - if any portion of the roundhouse is still visible, even just the turntable
  • Historic - if nothing remains of the roundhouse, turntable, or pit
Comments - anything you want to add
URL - if there's a web page with information about the roundhouse (railroad.net URLs preferred!)

If you have to guess at anything, put a question-mark after it.

Here's a few that I know about:
44.75313,-74.98258,Norwood,RW&O,12?,,,,,Historic,burned down,
43.97271,-75.93071,Watertown,NYC,30,500,100,,,Ruins,,http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=55622
42.74520,-73.68044,Troy,B&M,4?,,350,,,Idle,,
41.37645,-74.69464,Port Jervis,Erie,13?,110,400,,,Ruins,Turntable still functional,http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=48305

Matt Langworthy
Posts: 3384
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:02 pm
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: New York State Roundhouses

Post by Matt Langworthy » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:19 pm

Russ, you fromat is a little complicated... but I'll try to do my best. :wink:

Lat ??? Lon ??? Auburn, LV /Reuse
Lat ??? Lon ??? Rochester, B&O, Reuse
Matt Langworthy

"It is highly likely that the 1990s were an overrated decade."

User avatar
scottychaos
Posts: 4591
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:18 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: New York State Roundhouses

Post by scottychaos » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:10 pm

DL&W - East Binghamton (Conklin) yard, pit and bridge intact. abandoned.
LVRR - Manchester - pit and bridge semi-intact, abandoned.
LVRR - Auburn - pit filled in, no bridge - reuse by non-railroad company.
BR&P/B&O - Rochester (Lincoln Park) - pit filled in, no bridge - reuse by non-railroad company.
PRR - Sodus Point - pit filled in, no bridge - reuse by non-railroad company.
PRR - Buffalo (Ebenezer) Turntable and Roundhouse both in use by a railcar rebuilder.
Pullman Company - Buffalo - pit filled in, no bridge - reuse by non-railroad company.
Erie RR - Elmira - 1 stall standing, (doesnt really count as an intact roundhouse IMO.)
South Buffalo Railroad - Buffalo - pit filled in, no bridge - roundhouse in use by the South Buffalo (G&W)
G&W - Retsof - pit filled in, no bridge - roundhouse in use by the Rochester Southern. (G&W)
NYC - Batavia - pit filled in, no bridge - roundhouse in use by the Depew, Lancaster & Western. (GVT)

and I think there are one or two on Long Island..
those are all the ones I can think of off the top of my head..in central and western NY..
im probably still missing a few..

I will work on getting some coordinates tomorrow..(and if anyone wants to work on them meanwhile,
thats fine with me! ;)

Scot
~ Scot Lawrence
Moderator: Lehigh Valley
Co-Moderator: Anthracite Railroads
Scot's railroad webpages

User avatar
FarmallBob
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Chili, NY

Re: New York State Roundhouses

Post by FarmallBob » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:02 pm

Russ/Scot-

How about turntable locations without a roundhouse associated them? Eg. the turntable that once served the NYC Westshore at Genesee Jct:

http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychao ... ction.html

The Genesee Jct pit remains hidden in the woods - still in remarkably good shape.

...FB

lvrr325
Posts: 4620
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 5:42 pm
Location: New York State

Re: New York State Roundhouses

Post by lvrr325 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:19 am

Missing from previously posted lists -

NYC in Utica, re-use
NYO&W, Rome, re-use, turntable gone/filled in (viewed it myself in the fall)
LVRR, Cortland, re-use, turntable gone/filled in

Is there still an O&W roundhouse in Oswego, too? I can't remember.


Is there enough left of the PRR Sodus Point to count? I remember an arial view and all there was was like the back wall and part of a side wall.

I assume short-line single stall deals (no need for a turntable even) don't count?

houston
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:21 pm

Re: New York State Roundhouses

Post by houston » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:40 pm

A first post here.

I noticed that you were seeking to list Round houses, and I have just begun to look at the RW&O history. BTW I appreciate the work that was done on the history of that RR and the pictures posted in that history that is linked to this forum. In particular the wreck in 1907 near Blossvale. My Grandfather was under 10 years old at the time, but the train ran off the track onto his father's farm and he always tells the story of finding enough cookies to make himself sick from what was strewn around after the wreck. Seeing the pix brought back those story memories, and confirmed his story to his grandchildren.

Long way to get to two questions: I noticed that one poster identified a round house in Rome that I thought would belong to the RW&O RR rather than the one he identified it with being the NYO &W. I also would have considered it in ruins since you could only see the Engine house. Other parts of the property have had a series of reuse, but the Round House has now lost its roof and is wasting away quickly. It is south and west of the Amtrak station in South Rome. This round house is so close to the former crossing of the canal to the RW&O mainline up through West Rome to Camden that I thought it was theirs. Do you know for sure it is not?

I also was out looking for the former passenger station that was pictured on the Historical website for the RW&O yesterday and did not find it nor can I yet find a source for where it might have been located if someone has that information please let me know. If this was the wrong place to bring this up, I apologize and will accept the need to get to another forum.

Houston

User avatar
scottychaos
Posts: 4591
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:18 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: New York State Roundhouses

Post by scottychaos » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:28 pm

Hi Houston,
welcome to the forum! :)

I checked out the Rome roundhouse on Bing maps:

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=r5zw7r ... me%2C%20NY

Its south of the NYC mainline..

as to "who's roundhouse was it?"
I dont know!
but we can find out..

1895 topo map:
http://historical.mytopo.com/getImage.a ... g&state=NY

and 1947 topo map:
http://historical.mytopo.com/getImage.a ... g&state=NY

In both cases, it looks like it would have been NYO&W, not RW&O..
since it appears the RW&O did not extend south of the NYC mainline,
but the NYO&W did..
and the roundhouse looks to me to more in the NYO&W territory to me..

based on those maps, it basically looks like the NYC mainline was the demarcation line between the RW&O and the NYO&W..
RW&O to the north of the NYC, NYO&W to the south..
might not be quite that clear-cut..
can anyone confirm?

Scot
~ Scot Lawrence
Moderator: Lehigh Valley
Co-Moderator: Anthracite Railroads
Scot's railroad webpages

nydepot
Posts: 2268
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:50 am

Re: New York State Roundhouses

Post by nydepot » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:39 pm

O&W roundhouse was at Luquer St. The one you show is a later one.

North is pretty much pointing to the top left corner of the map.

Charles
romeow.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

jurtz
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 11:09 am

Re: New York State Roundhouses

Post by jurtz » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:00 pm

The roundhouse shown in the bing map photo is definitely O&W. I'm pretty sure that was built in conjunction with the building of the enlarged Erie (Barge) Canal, as that project also substantially moved the NYC main line. So it is probably the second Rome roundhouse for them. In the bing map photo, if you follow Lawrence St. north, you can see the tunnel/ underpass for the O&W under the NYC mainline, and see the bridge abutments for the canal.

houston
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:21 pm

Re: New York State Roundhouses

Post by houston » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:25 pm

Yep,

You guys are good. I studied the links, and the post where the original O&W round house was near Luquer St, and it all makes sense. In fact the coal tressel would make sense with Rome Oil and Coal being located or formerly located in the same area. It also makes sense that the round house would have been relocated south of the canal when they moved NYC and the Canal south. So very good guys it fills in some things for me but does not identify where the shops were for the RW&O. However the maps do show that I have likely been looking in the wrong area, as you say the RW&O was north of the NYC and it appears to me that it was also west of the Black River canal. Rome Strip Steel has now taken over the space once occupied by the old Rome Cable and that is likely the area that I should look for. The history seems to point to the maintence operations moving back and forth from Rome with the final place in Oswego when the Central took over.

I appreciate the help on this its pretty interesting to me. I've been thinking of modeling Rome's Railroads as there is some interesting history about it here, but I am just in the beginning stages of doing so. Anyway your quick help came faster than it took me to clean out my driveway... smile.

houston

dj_paige
Posts: 445
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 10:10 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: New York State Roundhouses

Post by dj_paige » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:48 pm

And maybe this doesn't quite fit into the category of "New York state Roundhouses", but I thought I would mention it, maybe it does fit.

How about a turntable pit with no roundhouse? Okay, I got one ... Genesee Junction
Paige
"If you get the chance to sit it out or dance, I hope you dance" -- LeAnn Rimes
My Flickr Photos

nydepot
Posts: 2268
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:50 am

Re: New York State Roundhouses

Post by nydepot » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:57 pm

I didn't see an RW&O roundhouse in Rome when I was looking at their old Plat maps. I see one in Utica. There was one at the start of the Black River branch, another NYC&HR one, and then O&W and DL&W roundhouses.

Charles

houston
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:21 pm

Re: New York State Roundhouses

Post by houston » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:29 pm

Okay guys I went back and read something more carefully as follows: (from "Industrial Main Street" by Isaac Marcososson 1953) page 39

...."The NYC trains came into Rome on one side of the long stone station; those of the Watertown Line upon the other.....The Watertown road contributed an even larger factgor for the prosperity to Rome because its chief shops were located there. These shops have an historical significance because they were to become the birthplace of Rome's metal industry......the Watertown shops were moved to Oswego, Nathaniel Haselton leased the plant. He retained, however, the title of master mechanic of the road and subsequently became mechanical superintendent. During his tenure his tenure of the shops he manufactured railway equipment and even turned out cars and locomotives."

Haselton was the father of two boys, one George eventually became the head of Vanderbuilt's empire as the Chief Mechanical Officer or whatever the title was in those days, and the other Jonathan became the first president of Rome Copper and Brass (Then Revere C&B)....

So someplace there were the shops of the old Watertown rd... the RW&O did not take over the Utica to Watertown road till much later.

When I get a chance I will go over to the Rome historical society and see if I can get some better information.... but from that more careful reading I now understand that the early passenger station was both NYC and RW&O so that should help me pin point that..

Again thanks for all the help on this, which I can only work on part of the time.

houston

nydepot
Posts: 2268
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:50 am

Re: New York State Roundhouses

Post by nydepot » Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:20 pm

Sorry, I didn't have the decimal Lat & Lon, just the degrees/minutes from Goggle Earth.

Charles


Lat,Lon,Community,Owner,Bays,Diameter,Table Length,Date Built,Date Demolished,Status,Comments,URL
42°53'25.66N,77°16'25.01W,Canandaigua,Northern Central (PRR),10,,,,,Historic,,
42° 8'37.20N,77° 2'34.41W,Corning,NYC,6+,,,,,Historic,,
43° 3'20.49N,76°58'55.68W,Lyons,NYC,10,,,,,Historic,,
43° 2'55.30N,77° 5'52.13W,Newark,WS,8,,,,,Historic,,
43°20'3.89N,76°42'4.14W,Fairhaven,LV,2,,,,,Historic,,
43° 6'27.53N,75°14'32.80W,Utica,DL&W,,,,,,Historic,,
43° 6'23.55N,75°14'6.12W,Utica,O&W,,,,,,Historic,,
43° 6'27.49N,75°14'13.15W,Utica,NYC,,,,,,Historic,,
43° 6'28.96N,75°14'1.62W,Utica,RW&O,,,,,,Active,,
42° 5'35.89N,76°48'24.87W,Elmira,Erie,,,,,,Reuse,,
42°55'47.80N,76°34'50.36W,Auburn,LV,,,,,,Reuse,,
42°53'28.49N,78°47'18.84W,Buffalo (Sloan),DL&W,,,,,,Historic,,
42°56'14.32N,76°34'12.75W,Auburn,NYC,,,,,,Historic,,
42°53'30.74N,77°16'22.67W,Canandaigua,NYC,,,,,,Historic,,
42°59'42.34N,78°11'26.57W,Batavia,NYC,,,,,,Active,,
42°48'50.83N,78°50'10.97W,Lackawanna,South Buffalo,,,,,,Active,
42°49'1.65N,78°50'12.01W,Lackawanna,NYC,,,,,,Historic,
42° 5'56.31N,76°48'24.57W,Elmira,LV,,,,,,Historic,
42° 4'17.23N,76°48'9.69W,Elmira (Southport),PRR,,,,,,Historic,
42° 6'21.13N,76°48'36.15W,Elmira,DL&W,,,,,,Historic,1st?
42° 6'35.61N,76°48'52.16W,Elmira,DL&W,,,,,,Historic,2nd?
42°52'40.63N,78°44'27.05W,Buffalo (Gardenville),NYC,,,,,,Historic,
42°50'57.56N,78°45'54.34W,Buffalo (Ebenezer),PRR,,,,,,Reuse,
42°54'2.98N,78°48'48.07W,Buffalo,West Shore,,,,,,Historic,
42°53'58.29N,78°48'37.01W,Buffalo,Wagner-Pullman-NYC Car Shops,,,,,,Intact,
42°52'30.33N,78°50'8.45W,Buffalo,WNY&P (PRR),,,,,,Historic,
42°51'49.73N,78°50'53.61W,Buffalo,Buffalo Creek,,,,,,Historic,
42°51'24.65N,78°50'53.66W,Buffalo,South Buffalo,,,,,,Historic,
42°51'18.01N,78°51'3.53W,Buffalo,LV,,,,,,Historic,
43° 2'15.11N,75° 3'50.12W,Frankfort,West Shore,,,,,,Historic,

User avatar
scottychaos
Posts: 4591
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:18 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: New York State Roundhouses

Post by scottychaos » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:00 pm

Charles,
im confused by your list..
you have a mix of existing and non-existing roundhouses..

what is your list exactly?

edit: never mind!
I get it now!

"historic" means "no longer exists" ;)
ok..makes sense now! ;)

Scot
~ Scot Lawrence
Moderator: Lehigh Valley
Co-Moderator: Anthracite Railroads
Scot's railroad webpages

Return to “New York State Railfan”