Middletown & New Jersey Railroad: News, Operations, Updates

Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

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DogBert
Posts: 1800
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 7:08 pm

Re: Middletown & New Jersey / East Penn

Post by DogBert » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:07 pm

What ever happened with that propane distro where the tanker cars were supposed to come from NYSW? It was the talk of this thread a ways back...

johnpbarlow
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:50 pm

Re: Middletown & New Jersey / East Penn

Post by johnpbarlow » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:34 am

M&NJ owner Regional Rail has conductor/engineer job openings (unspecified #) for M&NJ posted on their web site:

http://www.regional-rail.com/jobs.htm

SecaucusJunction
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Location: NS Watchdog

Re: Middletown & New Jersey / East Penn

Post by SecaucusJunction » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:06 am

DogBert wrote:What ever happened with that propane distro where the tanker cars were supposed to come from NYSW? It was the talk of this thread a ways back...
NS is delivering them. I saw about 30 of them on H70 last night.
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.

bk77
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:52 pm

Re: Middletown & New Jersey / East Penn

Post by bk77 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:23 pm

pumpers wrote:
bk77 wrote:One big plus with all this is I imagine MNJ will now be able to bring CSX/NYSW traffic to Middletown portion customers when they were not able to before, creating opporitunity for more business on that end. ...
In the earlier linked document, which I don't have in front of me, I recall reading a sentence like "traffic not being interchanged with NS will be subject to a surcharge (presumably to be paid to NS)", IIRC. I don't remember if that applied to all MNJ traffic to/from territory that was formerly handled by NS, or just some piece of it.

So my point is there might not be CSX/NYSW interchange for Middletown, depending on the surcharge.
JS

I've always understood that NS does have a stipulation on trackage that they lease to another railroad over current NS customers (at the time of the lease) getting rail shipments from other-than NS interchange. As you stated, there is a paragraph (H) in this agreement that mentions a surcharge, and part (iii) lists Probuild and Fairbanks Manufacturing getting notified on this change of service... both of which I believe are located on the Crawford Industrial. I wouldn't think such a surcharge would apply to MNJ/Middletown customers that NS has never served... but I could be wrong.

This brings up something else I find interesting..... seeing those 2 industries listed in this agreement, it mentions nothing about the customers in the "expanded trackage rights" section (the Metro-North section between CH and Port Jervis), unless I skipped over something. I'm pretty sure there are a few customers on this section around Middletown Station. So I'm wondering... does this mean NS will continue to serve those customers between CH and PJ, and that this section gives MNJ nothing more than just trackage rights to access Campbell Hall from Middletown? Even if that were the case I'd say it's still a nice expansion for the M&NJ.

Trainman14
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:50 am

Re: Middletown & New Jersey / East Penn

Post by Trainman14 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:29 am

I’m not sure how that works exactly. Hopefully the MNJ expands again.

mainline
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:23 pm
Location: Northport, New York

Re: Middletown & New Jersey / East Penn

Post by mainline » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:10 pm

SecaucusJunction wrote:
DogBert wrote:What ever happened with that propane distro where the tanker cars were supposed to come from NYSW? It was the talk of this thread a ways back...
NS is delivering them. I saw about 30 of them on H70 last night.
bk77 wrote:
pumpers wrote:
bk77 wrote:One big plus with all this is I imagine MNJ will now be able to bring CSX/NYSW traffic to Middletown portion customers when they were not able to before, creating opporitunity for more business on that end. ...
In the earlier linked document, which I don't have in front of me, I recall reading a sentence like "traffic not being interchanged with NS will be subject to a surcharge (presumably to be paid to NS)", IIRC. I don't remember if that applied to all MNJ traffic to/from territory that was formerly handled by NS, or just some piece of it.

So my point is there might not be CSX/NYSW interchange for Middletown, depending on the surcharge.
JS

I've always understood that NS does have a stipulation on trackage that they lease to another railroad over current NS customers (at the time of the lease) getting rail shipments from other-than NS interchange. As you stated, there is a paragraph (H) in this agreement that mentions a surcharge, and part (iii) lists Probuild and Fairbanks Manufacturing getting notified on this change of service... both of which I believe are located on the Crawford Industrial. I wouldn't think such a surcharge would apply to MNJ/Middletown customers that NS has never served... but I could be wrong.

This brings up something else I find interesting..... seeing those 2 industries listed in this agreement, it mentions nothing about the customers in the "expanded trackage rights" section (the Metro-North section between CH and Port Jervis), unless I skipped over something. I'm pretty sure there are a few customers on this section around Middletown Station. So I'm wondering... does this mean NS will continue to serve those customers between CH and PJ, and that this section gives MNJ nothing more than just trackage rights to access Campbell Hall from Middletown? Even if that were the case I'd say it's still a nice expansion for the M&NJ.
bk77 wrote:
pumpers wrote:
bk77 wrote:One big plus with all this is I imagine MNJ will now be able to bring CSX/NYSW traffic to Middletown portion customers when they were not able to before, creating opporitunity for more business on that end. ...
In the earlier linked document, which I don't have in front of me, I recall reading a sentence like "traffic not being interchanged with NS will be subject to a surcharge (presumably to be paid to NS)", IIRC. I don't remember if that applied to all MNJ traffic to/from territory that was formerly handled by NS, or just some piece of it.

So my point is there might not be CSX/NYSW interchange for Middletown, depending on the surcharge.
JS

I've always understood that NS does have a stipulation on trackage that they lease to another railroad over current NS customers (at the time of the lease) getting rail shipments from other-than NS interchange. As you stated, there is a paragraph (H) in this agreement that mentions a surcharge, and part (iii) lists Probuild and Fairbanks Manufacturing getting notified on this change of service... both of which I believe are located on the Crawford Industrial. I wouldn't think such a surcharge would apply to MNJ/Middletown customers that NS has never served... but I could be wrong.

This brings up something else I find interesting..... seeing those 2 industries listed in this agreement, it mentions nothing about the customers in the "expanded trackage rights" section (the Metro-North section between CH and Port Jervis), unless I skipped over something. I'm pretty sure there are a few customers on this section around Middletown Station. So I'm wondering... does this mean NS will continue to serve those customers between CH and PJ, and that this section gives MNJ nothing more than just trackage rights to access Campbell Hall from Middletown? Even if that were the case I'd say it's still a nice expansion for the M&NJ.

NS crew was At Presidents Container On December 10. This location is north of Campbell Hall and switched off the main. Not sure if was just scheduled before STB filing.

Bill

Jeff Smith
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Re: Middletown & New Jersey Railroad: News, Operations, Upda

Post by Jeff Smith » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:04 am

https://www.stb.gov/filings/all.nsf/ba7 ... 246831.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's a nice map in here, if anyone can copy and paste it out of the PDF.
Middletown & New Jersey Railroad, LLC ("M&NJ"), a Class III rail carrier, files this Notice of Exemption pursuant to 49 C.F.R. Part 1150, Subpart E--Exempt Transactions Under 49 U.S.C. 10902, to permit M&NJ to lease from Norfolk Southern Railway Company ("NS") and operate approximately 1.9 miles of rail line located between Four Story Junction at Milepost UJ O and Middletown, NY at Milepost UJ 1.9, known as the Crawford Industrial Track (the "Leased Line"). In conjunction with the lease of the NS Leased Line, M&NJ will also obtain incidental local and overhead trackage rights over the rail line located between the western end of Campbell Hall yard at milepost JS 67 .50 continuing for 9.1 miles to milepost JS 76.60 at
CP Howells, and from milepost SR 68.90 at CP Howells, continuing for 21 miles to milepost SR 89.90 at or near Port Jervis, New York (the "Incidental Trackage Rights"). The Incidental Trackage Rights are being granted over a line owned by NS and currently leased to Metro-North Commuter Railroad Company pursuant to a sublease agreement under which NSR retained the exclusive, irrevocable and perpetual right to provide or permit rail freight service on the line.
...
(3) The 1.9 mile rail line that M&NJ will lease is located between mileposts UJ 0, at Four Story Jct. and milepost UJ 1.9, at Middletown, N.Y. The trackage rights being granted to M&NJ are located between milepost JS 67.50, at the western end of the Campbell Hall yard and milepost JS 76.60, at CP Howells, and between milepost SR 68.90 at CP Howells and milepost SR 89.90, at or near Port Jervis N.Y.
(4) The length of the rail line being leased is approximately 1.9 miles. The length of the trackage rights being granted is approximately 30.1 miles.
...
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator/Co-Owner

Jeff Smith
Site Admin
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Re: Middletown & New Jersey Railroad: News, Operations, Upda

Post by Jeff Smith » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:09 am

Not sure if this was covered; apologies if it was: https://www.recordonline.com/news/20181 ... ack-siding" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MIDDLETOWN - The Middletown and New Jersey Railroad Corp. was awarded a state grant of $1.6 million to improve railroad infrastructure.
...
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator/Co-Owner

johnpbarlow
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:50 pm

Re: Middletown & New Jersey Railroad: News, Operations, Upda

Post by johnpbarlow » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:40 am

Here's the proposed M&NJ route map
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Jeff Smith
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Re: Middletown & New Jersey Railroad: News, Operations, Upda

Post by Jeff Smith » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:26 pm

Thanks!
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator/Co-Owner

oibu
Posts: 745
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:36 am

Re: Middletown & New Jersey Railroad: News, Operations, Upda

Post by oibu » Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:17 am

I'm still trying to figure out what the purpose of MNJ rights all the way to Port Jervis is.

I get the connection of existing MNJ owned and leased track by leasing to 4 Story and having rights from there to CH... but somebody must have a purpose/reason for even talking about the 20 miles or so west from 4 Story to Port?

cjvrr
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Location: Morris County, NJ

Re: Middletown & New Jersey Railroad: News, Operations, Upda

Post by cjvrr » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:37 am

I think NS just wants out of servicing any freight on that line west of Campbell Hall. Nothing to ship to or from Port Jervis other than oddball cars once in a great while. And perhaps M&NJ can market that area and gain some business in the future.
CV the Civil E

pdtrains
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Location: Phila, PA, Paso Robles, CA

Re: Middletown & New Jersey Railroad: News, Operations, Upda

Post by pdtrains » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:09 am

Several industries up at PO with abandoned sidings, and room for team track unloading. Maybe MNJ thinks their's potential. Also official connection to the CNYK at PO. Not that its needed now, but if NYSW ever gets in pissing match with NS/NJT over trackage rights, having separate trackage rights would be really helpful. Also they might be thinking some day of replacing the CNYK on the srn tier, and being able to interchange with NS and CP at Bingo.

SecaucusJunction
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Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:40 pm
Location: NS Watchdog

Re: Middletown & New Jersey Railroad: News, Operations, Upda

Post by SecaucusJunction » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:25 am

I don't believe they are allowed to interchange at PO
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.

njtrainspotter
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:48 pm

Re: Middletown & New Jersey Railroad: News, Operations, Upda

Post by njtrainspotter » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:55 pm

Anybody know what became of the ex-NYSW GP18 1800?

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