2018 Fall Train Show Schedule for Upstate New York

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mkirsch
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Re: 2018 Fall Train Show Schedule for Upstate New York

Post by mkirsch » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:23 am

RIT was my first, and will be my last, and only experience as a vendor at a train show.

I did not know until after I paid my $50 for my one tiny table that I would be held hostage for the entire weekend. I respected their rules but their rules have lost them a potential repeat attendee. Smacks of a bunch of indoctrinated book smart college kids with delusions of power. Not sure why I was surprised.

The crowd was thin at all times. I've stood outside for half an hour in line to get in well after the show started in years past... I can't imagine they had much of a line at any time this year unless they're really inefficient at the door. Most of the kids were completely uninterested in the trains; they just wanted to hit the vendors selling toys.

The only saving grace to being held hostage was most of my sales happened in the 2PM-4PM Sunday timeframe, long after I would have left in disgust the way things went the rest of the weekend. Had I been allowed to pack up and leave after Saturday, I would not have come back Sunday.

...and Buffalo managed to figure out how to lose the game in the last seconds...

sd80mac
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Re: 2018 Fall Train Show Schedule for Upstate New York

Post by sd80mac » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:59 pm

mkirsch wrote:RIT was my first, and will be my last, and only experience as a vendor at a train show.

I did not know until after I paid my $50 for my one tiny table that I would be held hostage for the entire weekend. I respected their rules but their rules have lost them a potential repeat attendee. Smacks of a bunch of indoctrinated book smart college kids with delusions of power. Not sure why I was surprised.

The crowd was thin at all times. I've stood outside for half an hour in line to get in well after the show started in years past... I can't imagine they had much of a line at any time this year unless they're really inefficient at the door. Most of the kids were completely uninterested in the trains; they just wanted to hit the vendors selling toys.

The only saving grace to being held hostage was most of my sales happened in the 2PM-4PM Sunday timeframe, long after I would have left in disgust the way things went the rest of the weekend. Had I been allowed to pack up and leave after Saturday, I would not have come back Sunday.

...and Buffalo managed to figure out how to lose the game in the last seconds...
other shows might not attract a lot of college kids.... Maybe you're better off to have table at SYR show on first wked of Nov...

If you had left, you wouldn't had these sales on Sunday 2-4 pm... Patience paid off... What more, it's FOOTBALL DAY.. I went to there Sunday at 10 am and left at noon to watch Miami Kick NE's butt... Yeah I went home with 3 locos and have 3-6 locos in my mind to buy at later time (only if they still have these)

lvrr325
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Re: 2018 Fall Train Show Schedule for Upstate New York

Post by lvrr325 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:57 pm

If you're going to give up after one show, you may not be cut out to be a vendor. Nobody's going to get rich and retire trying to be a business in this hobby, bad shows are part of the game. In 10 years of going to RIT, every second or third year the sales are just awful and this was an off year.

I do agree the crowd seemed light and that no one's chimed in with attendance numbers tells me it was probably down; typically they see around 4,000. There was a long line at the door Saturday morning and a shorter one Sunday. They did use metal detectors and make everyone get scanned (college policy). The parking, the aisle space and other rules I think are college dictated as well.

One thing worth noting, it being a college, every 2 to 4 years there's a complete turnover in club members.


Every train show you fight these things:

- Weather. Nice weather, people do outdoor things. Too nasty, people stay home.
- Sports. The right game or event on TV and people will go watch that.
- Competition. The larger the show the more people you compete with for business
- Dumpers. People who just want to get rid of stuff and don't care about prices. Great for the buyer, terrible for you who wants to sell things and make some profit on them. RIT is a big dumper show.
- Economy. The general consumer confidence and how the economy is doing fluctuates a lot even in one season.

Additionally, you also fight these things west of Syracuse:

- Softer Economy. People are tighter with their money in Rochester and Buffalo. I can sell more in one day in Albany than in two in either of the other cities.
- Too many shows. As many as 26 individual train shows within 65 miles drive of Batavia between Sept. 1 and April 30. Of which probably 50% of the dealers are the same dealer pool. People figure they can just wait until next week, or next month.

And of course Buffalo and Rochester seem to have more dumpers than any of the other markets.


I will do better on the things I bought from dumpers to flip on eBay than I did at the show. The show paid for me to go by a few bucks but that was it, not my worst RIT ever but only by a few dollars over the worst one. But I'll triple that easily after I sell these other things and I have a couple things to keep for myself.

With regard to table size, their 8 footer is average, almost everyone has that size except Albany GTE has six foot tables. The price at RIT did go up a bit this year, it was $40, I remember when it was $30. But I believe they have to rent the tables from an outside vendor.


As for RIT itself, the venue is great, they advertise, about the only fault is the parking is poorly laid out in relation to the facility and the club had nothing to do with that. If they had a small bus to run back and forth carrying people from the lot to the doors that might help get more people to come.

sd80mac
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Location: Rochester, ny

Re: 2018 Fall Train Show Schedule for Upstate New York

Post by sd80mac » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:06 am

lvrr325 wrote: They did use metal detectors and make everyone get scanned (college policy).
That is the first time this year. Even RIT staff was surprised to see that and didn't know why RIT have that. I think that might be the reason why price for table go up to cover rent-a-cop at doors... RIT train show aren't walmart.... these guys are better off at the stores where shoppers actually go nuts and fight over some stupid stuffs...
Dumpers. People who just want to get rid of stuff and don't care about prices. Great for the buyer, terrible for you who wants to sell things and make some profit on them. RIT is a big dumper show.
Actually less and less stores or private sellers are disappearing... I came for new stuffs. Last 3-4 shows, including Syr show prior to RIT, NOT ONE vender was selling new stuffs.. even some stores did show up but they were selling older unopened boxes that were collecting dusts... even KATO CR sd80mac was selling for 85 bucks and it's brand new...That thing were released in... early 2000's.

RIT finally had 2 venders that were selling most recently released ones and I got 3 of them...
If they had a small bus to run back and forth carrying people from the lot to the doors that might help get more people to come.
golf cart type with weather protection from wind (seat 4-6 people) would had taken care of that easily.. maybe 3 of them can do the job.

lvrr325
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Re: 2018 Fall Train Show Schedule for Upstate New York

Post by lvrr325 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:20 pm

To claim no one was selling new you have to have utterly ignored dozens of tables or have absolutely no idea what you're looking at. There were at least three large (10+ table) dealers carrying only new items, at least half a dozen in the 4 to 6 table size range with all new to a mix of new and used items, I'm smaller still but carry about 40% new items. Most of them are circuit guys, the biggest ones do two day shows only, the mid-size and smaller will come to select one day shows. At least one of those vendors does Springfield the end of January.

In fact I was somewhat disgusted the brand new Bowser pieces I made an extra effort to get in, not a single person looked at. I don't think anyone else even had them.


Most of the vendors are getting older with no one to take their place. Shops are closing up; four in the last 14 months or so alone. The hobby has changed, with limited runs requiring a pre-order the norm, if you don't advance order items often you don't get one. It's not worth stocking 10 pieces to try to guess which one I might sell without sitting on it for months or years, when I have to compete with the internet sellers who price things just barely above cost so my profit margin is zilch. As I said before you won't get rich in the hobby business but there's no sense throwing money away either.

Guys sell used and old stock because there's more money in it, plain and simple. At one auction I was able to buy the entire train layout for $50. I made about 10 times my money from it and still have stuff left over from that collection. I drove three hours to Fort Edward for another auction and while I spent a lot more I made almost half my money back on just one piece. Meanwhile, the new Atlas D&H engine I thought would easily sell went to shows from Buffalo to Albany to Binghamton only to sell on eBay this last week, going to Canada, I think I made ten bucks on it. And I had it out for less than any other dealer.

mkirsch
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Re: 2018 Fall Train Show Schedule for Upstate New York

Post by mkirsch » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:36 pm

The money was not a concern for me. I am one of the aforementioned "dumpers," just trying to get some unused gear into the hands of people that might use it and free up some shelf space in the basement.

Is any other show run this way? You *HAVE* to be there for both days, right until the bitter end? I know if I imposed such a rule on my annual R/C airplane swap meet, I would not have any attendees the next year. I understand there's always that one odd duck that comes in at 15 minutes before the end of the show and wants the full experience, but really, holding everyone hostage for four hours so ONE person isn't disappointed?

Another question: Did ANY of the vendors aside from myself park in the G or H lots as required by the rules? The close parking lot, which should have been for the public, was half full Saturday morning two hours before the show, and I was one of two vehicles parked in lots G and H. When I went out at 4PM, there were maybe ten cars in lot G.

lvrr325
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Re: 2018 Fall Train Show Schedule for Upstate New York

Post by lvrr325 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:23 pm

Staying to the end is part of the deal, one guy packs up early, then another, then another, suddenly half the show is empty and they can't charge admission for that. There are shows that will let you contract for a single day, but typically they charge $10 more for the space. I set up my display so most of it serves as both display and storage, it just comes down and onto the cart, so all I have to pack up is some loose things and I start in on that before end of show.

IIRC last year someone was complaining that he came late and a lot of people had packed up, too.


But if you need to leave, you can leave, nothing prevents you from it. You can give the table to a neighbor. Maybe they blackball you from the next show, maybe not, if you tell them you have a family situation and need to take care of it that's one thing, if you bitch that nobody was buying and you want to go home, that's another.

Yes, virtually no one followed that vendor parking rule except the guys with trailers. But as I said before some of these guys are getting older. That's become a long danged walk even for me. There again, if they had a little bus shuttle...


Beyond that, I guess, if it's not about the money, what's to complain about? If it's that terrible and you're just dumping it anyways, dump it all in one shot to a real dealer and stay home. Then he has one less cutthroat competitor to worry about. Otherwise, you get to see people you know and socialize a little, you sell some stuff, if you're modeling still maybe you find some new stuff.

I hate not making money too but I absolutely enjoy buying something cheap and then looking it up online and seeing I can sell it for stupid money there. Which happens almost every show I do. Sometimes just double my money, other times... I've flipped $30 items for $500 plus on more than one occasion.

sd80mac
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Re: 2018 Fall Train Show Schedule for Upstate New York

Post by sd80mac » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:00 am

lvrr325 wrote:To claim no one was selling new you have to have utterly ignored dozens of tables or have absolutely no idea what you're looking at. There were at least three large (10+ table) dealers carrying only new items, at least half a dozen in the 4 to 6 table size range with all new to a mix of new and used items, I'm smaller still but carry about 40% new items. Most of them are circuit guys, the biggest ones do two day shows only, the mid-size and smaller will come to select one day shows. At least one of those vendors does Springfield the end of January.
At Syr state fairground, I walked by every table and couldn't find any NEW HO stuffs, especially Athearn... I wasn't concern about other scales such as O gauge, which are mostly selling Lionels (MTH stuffs are getting less and less which is why I walked by the table that is full of lionels. I would had stopped to look at MTH even through I'm not buying them) and yeah N scale. I wasn't looking for anything from these. When I thought I saw store selling "new" HO locos and it turns out to be leftover that they couldn't sell but nothing like recently released...

At RIT, I finally saw a guy that I didn't see last year at RIT and Syr (also this year too) and then I saw table across aisle from this guy I know and got what I wanted.. I had enough what I needed so I didn't go further to check others out I did see table with "newer" boxes in next aisle but nothing recently released. (For these time that I didnt see the guy last 3 shows, he may had gone to bathroom or getting food but I would had seen his table full of recently released HO models but nothing like that)

I cant get any good deals for multi items purchase through internet anymore. No more Express Station in Washington... No more Longs in Calif ... no more Island trains.... and several others. Now no more of these frequently venders at shows - Lackawanna store... Horesehead store (forget the name) and few others that I used to buy from... so new recently released of HO locomotives are hardly find at shows recently...

lvrr325
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Re: 2018 Fall Train Show Schedule for Upstate New York

Post by lvrr325 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:04 pm

sd80mac wrote:
At Syr state fairground, I walked by every table and couldn't find any NEW HO stuffs, especially Athearn... I wasn't concern about other scales such as O gauge, which are mostly selling Lionels (MTH stuffs are getting less and less which is why I walked by the table that is full of lionels. I would had stopped to look at MTH even through I'm not buying them) and yeah N scale. I wasn't looking for anything from these. When I thought I saw store selling "new" HO locos and it turns out to be leftover that they couldn't sell but nothing like recently released...

At RIT, I finally saw a guy that I didn't see last year at RIT and Syr (also this year too) and then I saw table across aisle from this guy I know and got what I wanted.. I had enough what I needed so I didn't go further to check others out I did see table with "newer" boxes in next aisle but nothing recently released. (For these time that I didnt see the guy last 3 shows, he may had gone to bathroom or getting food but I would had seen his table full of recently released HO models but nothing like that)

I cant get any good deals for multi items purchase through internet anymore. No more Express Station in Washington... No more Longs in Calif ... no more Island trains.... and several others. Now no more of these frequently venders at shows - Lackawanna store... Horesehead store (forget the name) and few others that I used to buy from... so new recently released of HO locomotives are hardly find at shows recently...
I'm thinking you're either blind or have no idea what you're looking for, since there's at least one guy who does all the two day shows who has new, current Athearn products. There was at least one more vendor at RIT with new Athearn items; he also was at Batavia and is in a store in Rochester somewhere. Heck, even I had some brand new, older stock Athearn RTR cars I bought from a vendor who was dumping stock at Amsterdam.

As noted previously there were at least a dozen vendors with new HO items from other manufacturers, myself included. I had some things that were delivered to the distributor I use that week and I got the package myself the day before the show. New.

Athearn about takes an act of God and a small fortune to get an account with; one must have a store, must have a minimum initial order and must order every month. On top of that the discount is short so you're not going to find many deals on it.

sd80mac
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Re: 2018 Fall Train Show Schedule for Upstate New York

Post by sd80mac » Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:21 am

lvrr325 wrote:I'm thinking you're either blind or have no idea what you're looking for, since there's at least one guy who does all the two day shows who has new, current Athearn products. There was at least one more vendor at RIT with new Athearn items; he also was at Batavia and is in a store in Rochester somewhere. Heck, even I had some brand new, older stock Athearn RTR cars I bought from a vendor who was dumping stock at Amsterdam.

As noted previously there were at least a dozen vendors with new HO items from other manufacturers, myself included. I had some things that were delivered to the distributor I use that week and I got the package myself the day before the show. New.

Athearn about takes an act of God and a small fortune to get an account with; one must have a store, must have a minimum initial order and must order every month. On top of that the discount is short so you're not going to find many deals on it.

I don't need to go chasing all shows. I only need to go to big one in Syr and good local RIT.. No need to drive 1 hour or more to anywhere else. I stated that I KNOW WHAT LOCOMOTIVE I wanted.. In past, good numbers of venders have them and I could compare the prices between 2 or more. not like today. Hell yeah I did get deal.... And I know a person who don't have store and only sells at shows and he have new Athearn on his table..

lvrr325
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Re: 2018 Fall Train Show Schedule for Upstate New York

Post by lvrr325 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:37 pm

sd80mac wrote: I don't need to go chasing all shows. I only need to go to big one in Syr and good local RIT.. No need to drive 1 hour or more to anywhere else. I stated that I KNOW WHAT LOCOMOTIVE I wanted.. In past, good numbers of venders have them and I could compare the prices between 2 or more. not like today. Hell yeah I did get deal.... And I know a person who don't have store and only sells at shows and he have new Athearn on his table..
No, you didn't say that, but I'm not going to argue it.

People don't typically carry tons of engines because there's no point to investing thousands in inventory to only sell one or two pieces per event at a very small profit margin. A few choose to do that but they're really operating the business as a hobby itself.

And, of course, things sell out over time. Virtually everything these days is made limited run, to order, if you don't buy it when you see it, you may not be able to buy one later.

Yes, some people find ways to get Athearn via back doors or under the table. The order requirements are such that it's easier for an account holder to share access with other vendors.

If you only care about those two shows, they have their own websites where you can keep track of them, there's no need to continue to discuss them here.

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