Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

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BandA
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Re: Iowa Pacific - Adirondack Parks Trespass Battle

Post by BandA » Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:10 pm

I think the railroad should be required to scrape the flaking lead/heavy metals paint from their stored coaches & remediate the paint chips from the ground. Then they should make sure any oil tankers are opened & suctioned out before they go into long term storage, where long term storage is > 2 years. I assume the cost of properly suctioning out the residue would cost at least $50/car. They should also cut the stored cars every 15 cars or so so that people can cross.

This permit stuff is strange. Unless a deed restriction has been added when the property was sold then federal law would preempt APA permit requirements, I believe.

lvrr325
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Re: Iowa Pacific - Adirondack Parks Trespass Battle

Post by lvrr325 » Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:33 pm

You don't hike on active rail tracks, even if there's cars in storage on them. Look what happened in Utica a while back, all it takes is one idiot to release a hand brake and you have stuff in motion with zero warning.

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Otto Vondrak
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Re: Iowa Pacific - Adirondack Parks Trespass Battle

Post by Otto Vondrak » Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:11 pm

Jeff Smith wrote:I didn't put this in the Saratoga & North Creek Railway thread as it really doesn't involve the tourist line operations
The same company operates freight and passenger service. Carry on.

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RussNelson
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Re: Iowa Pacific - Adirondack Parks Trespass Battle

Post by RussNelson » Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:56 pm

John Caffrey wrote:If you hold an easement, that does not give you the right to exclude the owner of the property,” Caffry said. “You get to use the property; you don’t get exclusive use of it.
Well that's just plain nonsense. Some large fraction of railroads operate on easements, and I know of no one who thinks that property owners can trespass on those railroads whenever they want.
Brian Mann wrote:I do not recall seeing no-trespassing signs along the tracks
So what? Do you think that means you can enter a prison's property at will? Or a state trooper's barracks? Or your neighbor's back yard? Of course not. If you think you shouldn't be on somebody's property, you shouldn't, and you should leave. If the property owner tells you you must leave, you must leave.
critics wrote:The company wants to turn the Adirondack Park into a junkyard.
If it's necessary to trespass on railroad property to see the cars, it isn't exactly a junkyard where you can see the junk from adjoining property.
Peter Bauer wrote:Protect believes that the public has the right to use this corridor, and we will continue to undertake field visits that in no way interfere with railroad operations to monitor actions that threaten the Forest Preserve and rivers of the Adirondack Park,
Fine. You do that, Peter. Be a man like Phil Brown, and tell Iowa Pacific when and where you intend to trespass. You'll get arrested, and you can make use of that lawyerman of yours.

griffs20soccer
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Post by griffs20soccer » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:30 pm

Russ,
This has been discussed on the S&NC yahoo group. The railroad did the right thing and told the county of their plans for car storage. Mr. Ellis spent over an hour answering questions. There is nothing legally that could prevent them from doing this, they just didn't want to start storing cars and blind side the county.

Curt Austin is pushing to have the tracks removed. He is the head of the group that wanted the Tahawus Branch turned into a trail and had IPH purchase it out from under his nose. Our good friend Tony Goodwin has been attending their meetings and advising them. I still don't understand why people want to see 100 plus jobs go away. Once again if the tracks are turn up on the Tahawus Branch, won't it revert to forever wild (ie not rail at least not snowmobiles)?

Here is the link to the video of the meeting. Mr. Ellis talks for about 60 minutes at the beginning.

http://www.warrencountyny.gov/gov/comm/ ... blic_works" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Until IPH renews the contract Curt and Tony are going to keep pushing for the county to give up the railroad and make it a trail.
Don

pumpers
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Post by pumpers » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:02 am

I stumbled across this online newspaper article from a few days ago:
http://poststar.com/news/local/railroad ... 4e0a1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Railroad says tank car storage now unlikely

Saratoga & North Creek Railway announced Tuesday that it is close to an agreement to move stone from former mines in Tahawus, a development that would keep the line open and likely prevent storage of out-of-service oil tank cars on the little-used rail line north of North Creek
Don't know if this is some political fallout or if something is really happening. Jim S

griffs20soccer
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Post by griffs20soccer » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:34 pm

The railroad has been trying for years to negotiate a favorable contract with CP Rail, their only interchange partner, to move stone to a big costumer. They moved a smaller amount of stone to MassDOT, but the contract referenced in the article is a big one for several years. Who knows may be CP could be feeling the pinch of reduced oil shipments into the port,or the selling of the D&H southern lines could have improved their bargaining position, or the tank car storage could have gotten the state to put pressure on CP to make it happen who knows. If this contract goes through it will mean 1,000's of carloads a year for multiple years.

Old Muley
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Post by Old Muley » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:44 pm

I sincerely hope that the S&NC closes this transaction and that freight starts moving.

ATT :
Phil Brown
Peter Bauer
John W. Caffry
Tony Godwin

Godspeed to the S&NC. They have been "up-front", unlike the phony trespassers.

I will NEVER contribute again to NCPR.

If I am banned from this forum for this post, so be it.

Scott K. Willis. aka Old Muley

Taxpayer

Saranac Lake, NY
Old Muley - MP 76 Harlem Division

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charlie6017
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Post by charlie6017 » Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:10 pm

Hi Scott,

I certainly happen to agree with your thoughts on the S&NC, I hope freight moves as well. Since CP Rail has now closed with NS on
the sale of the lower part of the old D&H, I would guess they are better able to focus on hammering out a deal with S&NC. I hope
they are highly successful in all of their ventures!

Charlie
~Charlie Ricker

thebigham
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Post by thebigham » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:59 pm

5 year lease renewal!

http://blog.timesunion.com/business/nor ... ars/73039/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

North Creek trains to run another five years
By Eric Anderson on March 2, 2016 at 9:09 AM

The Glens Falls Post-Star is reporting that Warren County and the Saratoga and North Creek Railroad have reached a new five-year contract that will continue train service along the line from Saratoga Springs to North Creek. The terms are identical to the previous contract, which required the railroad, a unit of Chicago-based Iowa Pacific Holdings, to pay Warren County $81,000 a year.

The Post-Star said that Ed Ellis, Iowa Pacific’s president, attended a meeting Monday of the supervisors and told them the railroad had paid $6 million in salaries to local workers over the previous five years and spent $13 million on local goods and services.

rhallock
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Post by rhallock » Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:19 pm

Does this new lease include the line north of North Creek? Has there been any new activity on that end?

griffs20soccer
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Post by griffs20soccer » Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:10 am

The Post Star article reported IPH made an offer to purchase the line. The article is a good read on what S&NC has contributed to the local economy. Hopefully my link works.

http://poststar.com/news/local/rail-ser ... 3266c.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Once again our trial friend and Tony disciple Curt Austin had to make his negative comments known and how much we would all be better off if the railroad was turned into a trail.
Don

Tony Goodwin
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Post by Tony Goodwin » Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:40 pm

Curt Austen is not my "disciple" and I have not expressed any opinion on the lease renewal. Don't try to drag me into this debate.

hojack
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Post by hojack » Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:16 pm

I hope the poster rephrases his claim and issues you an apology Tony

I know your too busy handling the Keet funded attack on the Lake Placid Line to have involved yourself with this minutia. I know you have better things to do. Get that track ripped out as soon as possible. I'm starting to think the Lake Placid Line will hopefully outlive You, Keet, and Beamish. And the next generation will have a better view of civic responsibility and transportation policy than you gentry elites'. How is the snowmobiling and biking going this year? I shouldn't have asked, although there is no snowmobiling anywhere in NY, the ARTA tavern operatives insist there would be a thriving " sport" and economic spinoff if you get those rails ripped out.

griffs20soccer
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Post by griffs20soccer » Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Curt Austin's trail group facebook page clearly posted that Tony and some of his people were attending one of their meetings. The meeting was to discuss ideas on how to get the use of the right of way for a trail because of Tony's success with the Adirondack Scenic wanted to get some ideas, hence the follower comment. That is from their facebook page and not my imagination. Sounds to me like Mr. Austin owes an apology for throwing Tony under the bus. I'm not trying to get into a spiting match but these trail groups are well organized and are going after active railroads. It appears that New York state is more interested in backing the trail groups that want to drive out businesses that bring jobs and tax revenues out of the state and become chummy with these special interested groups and their money. To hell with what is good for the majority of the people.
Don

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