CR on the Southern Secondary

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Bracdude181
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by Bracdude181 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:01 pm

SA38 will be leaving cross street shortly and will drill woodhaven shortly afterwards.

Bracdude181
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by Bracdude181 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:11 pm

SA38. Eastbound at Cross Street at 10:09. Next stop woodhaven. This crew seems to be working quickly. Doing track speed...

OCtrainguy
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by OCtrainguy » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:34 pm

RailsEast wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:20 pm
Glad you could get out, Stephen, I know it's not easy for you much of the time. Lower sun angles this time of year make it tough along a mostly tree-lined route, so we all do what we can for a decent shot.
As the crew looked across Shrewsbury Ave this afternoon.....

http://njtwom.rrpicturearchives.net/sho ... id=5208056

Chris

Nicely done photo Chris! And yeah, I don't get out as much as I would like to, but got an extra hour today to do so. I noticed the increased shadows at my first photo spot in Shrewsbury. Hope to get one more chance before we turn the clocks back.

Bracdude181
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by Bracdude181 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:39 am

There seems to be some sort of rumor going around that New Jersey Seashore Lines has just purchased the Southern Division and Freehold Industrial Track from Conrail, and that they will be taking over operations on these lines over the next year or so. I've also heard that as part of all this, NJSL will put a wye in at farmingdale and reconnect the freehold line to the southern.

I'm honestly not sure what to make of this. Is this true or not? What do y'all think? This would certainly be big news if it's true...

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Coast Line Railfan
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by Coast Line Railfan » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:03 pm

Bracdude181 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:39 am
There seems to be some sort of rumor going around that New Jersey Seashore Lines has just purchased the Southern Division and Freehold Industrial Track from Conrail, and that they will be taking over operations on these lines over the next year or so. I've also heard that as part of all this, NJSL will put a wye in at farmingdale and reconnect the freehold line to the southern.

I'm honestly not sure what to make of this. Is this true or not? What do y'all think? This would certainly be big news if it's true...
As you've known, it is very true. In addition to the 31 conductor, the PR-52 conductor confirmed that CR sold the whole thing to Cape May Sea Shore Lines. They also intend to restore the 2 miles between Prestone and Fdale to avoid NJT.
-David
-Southern Division Rail Productions

mdamico23
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by mdamico23 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:24 pm

That is an interesting rumor. (I think) the Southern's ROW down to Lakehurst is owned by NJDOT, not Conrail Shared Assets. From Lakehurst- Woodmansie, the ownership of the right of way was transferred from Conrail to Clayton Sand sometime in the early mid-1980s. South of Woodmansie, at least down to Winslow Jct. and perhaps beyond, I think is owned by NJDOT.

I wonder if CSAO "operating rights" on the Southern and Freehold lines were transferred to the NJSL? If the rumor is true, including reconnecting the Southern with the Freehold line, it could mean the end of freight service on the Coast Line. But, at the same time, I believe the Freehold Industrial track has not been operated past Okerson Road in Howell since the late 1980s/ early 1990s. I remember heading rumors shortly after Hurricane Sandy that NJT was exploring an equipment move off of the then crippled Coast Line, via the Southern and Freehold Industrial, but the track conditions between Okerson Road and Farmingdale made the routing impossible.

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Coast Line Railfan
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by Coast Line Railfan » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:28 pm

mdamico23 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:24 pm
That is an interesting rumor. (I think) the Southern's ROW down to Lakehurst is owned by NJDOT, not Conrail Shared Assets. From Lakehurst- Woodmansie, the ownership of the right of way was transferred from Conrail to Clayton Sand sometime in the early mid-1980s. South of Woodmansie, at least down to Winslow Jct. and perhaps beyond, I think is owned by NJDOT.

I wonder if CSAO "operating rights" on the Southern and Freehold lines were transferred to the NJSL? If the rumor is true, including reconnecting the Southern with the Freehold line, it could mean the end of freight service on the Coast Line. But, at the same time, I believe the Freehold Industrial track has not been operated past Okerson Road in Howell since the late 1980s/ early 1990s. I remember heading rumors shortly after Hurricane Sandy that NJT was exploring an equipment move off of the then crippled Coast Line, via the Southern and Freehold Industrial, but the track conditions between Okerson Road and Farmingdale made the routing impossible.
Yeah sorry, I always mix it up. From what I understand, NJT owns the SOUS to Lakehurst and the rest of the Browns lines. Also from what I've heard, NJT has solid-sold it to CMSL for operation.
-David
-Southern Division Rail Productions

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Coast Line Railfan
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by Coast Line Railfan » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:31 pm

Flagging Newman Springs Road. Usual stuff leading the train.
-David
-Southern Division Rail Productions

mdamico23
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by mdamico23 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:38 pm

As a quick aside, in looking at Google Maps, it looks like much of the track between Okerson Road in Howell and Farmingdale is GONE. There are several road- rr grade crossings between the two points and all of the crossings have been removed. Satellite imagery seems to indicate that the rails are also missing. That is going to be pricey rehab, and although the row seems to traverse a relatively rural area, I wonder if there are going to be NIMBY issues. The price of the re installation of all of the ties, rail and signal infrastructure does not seem to justify the cost of 15 or so cars of lumber every week. Unless, there is something greater afoot, such as the rumored sand trains from Woodmansie.

If Cape May Seashore did buy the tracks from NJT, I wonder if it spells the end of the MOM rail proposal, unless NJT has an easement to resume passenger service if the situation warrants.

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Coast Line Railfan
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by Coast Line Railfan » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:45 pm

mdamico23 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:38 pm
As a quick aside, in looking at Google Maps, it looks like much of the track between Okerson Road in Howell and Farmingdale is GONE. There are several road- rr grade crossings between the two points and all of the crossings have been removed. Satellite imagery seems to indicate that the rails are also missing. That is going to be pricey rehab, and although the row seems to traverse a relatively rural area, I wonder if there are going to be NIMBY issues. The price of the re installation of all of the ties, rail and signal infrastructure does not seem to justify the cost of 15 or so cars of lumber every week. Unless, there is something greater afoot, such as the rumored sand trains from Woodmansie.

If Cape May Seashore did buy the tracks from NJT, I wonder if it spells the end of the MOM rail proposal, unless NJT has an easement to resume passenger service if the situation warrants.
Well, it is safe to assume there will always be a NIMBY problem. Additionally, it anything, the MOM project could be put a step forward with access to Freehold and the NEC, as a routing to Trenton was one of the options for the project.
-David
-Southern Division Rail Productions

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RailsEast
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by RailsEast » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:48 pm

CSX 6228, CSX 6160 with 15 Woodhavens, approaching Maxwell Rd at 4:50 in the pm. Usual stuff indeed......
"Old railfans never die, they just lose track......"
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Tanker1497
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by Tanker1497 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:13 pm

Don't bite my head off but NJDOT and NJT is not interchangeable acronyms! NJ TRANSIT is New Jersey's public transportation corporation.
NJDOT are is the agency responsible for transportation issues and policy in New Jersey, such as maintaining and operating the State's highway and public road system, planning and developing transportation policy and assisting with rail, freight and intermodal transportation issues. NJDOT is who owns the rightaways that are talked about above not NJT.

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Coast Line Railfan
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by Coast Line Railfan » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:18 pm

Tanker1497 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:13 pm
Don't bite my head off but NJDOT and NJT is not interchangeable acronyms! NJ TRANSIT is New Jersey's public transportation corporation.
NJDOT are is the agency responsible for transportation issues and policy in New Jersey, such as maintaining and operating the State's highway and public road system, planning and developing transportation policy and assisting with rail, freight and intermodal transportation issues. NJDOT is who owns the rightaways that are talked about above not NJT.
I wasn't attacking you for the reporting marks lol. You can in this case, interchangeably use NJT and NJDOT since it's pretty easy to tell who owns it by either of those acronyms.
-David
-Southern Division Rail Productions

OCtrainguy
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by OCtrainguy » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:23 pm

RailsEast wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:48 pm
CSX 6228, CSX 6160 with 15 Woodhavens, approaching Maxwell Rd at 4:50 in the pm. Usual stuff indeed......
Was wondering what the engines were today. It was a great fall day weather wise, but couldn't get out of work early today.

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R&DB
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by R&DB » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:02 pm

Bracdude181 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:39 am
There seems to be some sort of rumor going around that New Jersey Seashore Lines has just purchased the Southern Division and Freehold Industrial Track from Conrail, and that they will be taking over operations on these lines over the next year or so. I've also heard that as part of all this, NJSL will put a wye in at farmingdale and reconnect the freehold line to the southern.

I'm honestly not sure what to make of this. Is this true or not? What do y'all think? This would certainly be big news if it's true...
Most likey bovinefeces. As other have stated NJDoT owns the RoWs and everthing along them. If NJSL was involved it would only be as an operator. They are the designated operator for the Woodmansie - Lakehurst stretch. (Owned by Clayton Block and Sand}
There is no corroborating news from NJDoT or NJSL or Conrail.
This is just somrbodys 'what if' dream and has been bandied about for decades.
And as for the Wye at Farmingdale, who's gonna pay to move JCP&Ls substation abd yard?
Harry

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