SEPTA closes front seats on Silverliner V

Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

Re: SEPTA closes front seats on Silverliner V

Postby nomis » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:32 pm

I may of missed this in the many iterations of the SL V threads, but I am currently sitting in the 2nd row of a MN trIn to new haven, and am enjoying the view out the center door. The first row is barricaded off by a horizontal sliding bar attached to the seatback, and the half cab door has signs stating "do not block door".
Moderator: Metro-North (with CDOT), Photography & Video

Avatar: An overnight trip on Girard Ave. stumbles upon 6 PCC's and an LRV stuck within two blocks.
User avatar
nomis
 
Posts: 2086
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:52 pm
Location: MRS 43 (was QA 9 & QB 2)

Re: SEPTA closes front seats on Silverliner V

Postby JeffK » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:16 pm

rslitman wrote:Even COBOL-programming dinosaurs like me understand the significance of 65,536!

Some of us have tried the hard stuff like 2147483647. And there was that whole decade when I was consumed by Rexx. Anyone want to sneak away and try Numeric Digits 20000 in private?

But seriously, gang, what's the real issue with the front seats being closed? Is it whether we can take pictures or whether the cars have adequate passenger capacity? As much as I like taking pics it's far more important to me that the cars aren't SRO.
User avatar
JeffK
 
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:05 pm
Location: Western suburbs

Re: SEPTA closes front seats on Silverliner V

Postby Clearfield » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:11 pm

JeffK wrote:But seriously, gang, what's the real issue with the front seats being closed? Is it whether we can take pictures or whether the cars have adequate passenger capacity?


The issue is capacity. With 700 trains a day, a loss of 2 seats per train equates to 1400 lost seats per day.

With rising gas prices, ridership is already up. SEPTA called the loss of the seats 'insignificant'. Tell that to the people who are standing.
"The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one".............. Spock

My opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of any organization, Association, or Authority.
User avatar
Clearfield
 
Posts: 1980
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:36 pm
Location: Montgomery County, PA

Re: SEPTA closes front seats on Silverliner V

Postby nomis » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:59 pm

And yet on my MN train today, there was plenty of people standing. Nobody complained about having to stand from 125th to Stamford until some seats opened up, nor did they try to take the seats when the deadheading employee left the seat and the engineer's grip was still located there.

Bob, out of those 700 trains a day, how many have the front car open? And of those that have the car open, how many have SRO or even crunch coonditions? Saying that it affects 1400 passengers a day, is just "newspaper" talk ...
Moderator: Metro-North (with CDOT), Photography & Video

Avatar: An overnight trip on Girard Ave. stumbles upon 6 PCC's and an LRV stuck within two blocks.
User avatar
nomis
 
Posts: 2086
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:52 pm
Location: MRS 43 (was QA 9 & QB 2)

Re: SEPTA closes front seats on Silverliner V

Postby Clearfield » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:28 pm

nomis wrote:Bob, out of those 700 trains a day, how many have the front car open? And of those that have the car open, how many have SRO or even crunch coonditions? Saying that it affects 1400 passengers a day, is just "newspaper" talk ...


EVERY revenue run is already required to have the lead car open.

The 1400 passengers it affects are the ones that cannot sit down because those seats are closed.

Can't say much for either newspapers or the service on Metro North.
"The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one".............. Spock

My opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of any organization, Association, or Authority.
User avatar
Clearfield
 
Posts: 1980
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:36 pm
Location: Montgomery County, PA

Re: SEPTA closes front seats on Silverliner V

Postby BuddSilverliner269 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:55 pm

Not to nit pick but the rule DOES NOT require the front car open. It states that 2 cars must be open. If it was a 3 car train, the crew could decide to close ofd the lead car and only use the rear 2. I have to agree with nomis, its pure newspapertalk regarding the numbers and if you're worried about the lose of seats, petition to have the 3 seaters come back.
BuddSilverliner269
 
Posts: 3662
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:40 am
Location: Trenton Line MP 30.70

Re: SEPTA closes front seats on Silverliner V

Postby rslitman » Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:35 pm

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:Not to nit pick but the rule DOES NOT require the front car open. It states that 2 cars must be open. If it was a 3 car train, the crew could decide to close ofd the lead car and only use the rear 2. I have to agree with nomis, its pure newspapertalk regarding the numbers and if you're worried about the lose of seats, petition to have the 3 seaters come back.


Back when I first started commuting to West Trenton in the early 2000s, the crew would only open the second car (of three) on afternoon train 371, at least at the beginning of the line at West Trenton. Sometimes, as the trip progressed, the front car would then be opened as more passengers boarded. These days, the first two cars are usually open right from the start every day. The third car (and fourth, the rare time there is one, such as during Flower Show week) is never used on this run.

I think the rationale back then was that most people wanted to sit near where they got on, and most people also did not want to ride backwards.
Soon you will need to be in your 60s in order to remember the 60s.
rslitman
 
Posts: 904
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: On the West Trenton line

Re: SEPTA closes front seats on Silverliner V

Postby loufah » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:36 am

I haven't taken it in a few weeks, so things may have changed as ridership picks up, but the 8:09PM out of Trenton on Friday typically has had only the 2nd car open (out of 3 or 4). Sometimes the door to the first car is unlocked but the crew will chase out any passenger who enters.
loufah
 
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:47 am

Re: SEPTA closes front seats on Silverliner V

Postby Silverliner II » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:52 am

There is many a train to be found with the 1st car closed. I run into them on off-peak trains, or some reverse-peak trains. I rode the above-mentioned 371 one day, and only the 2nd car was open until Temple. Some weekend Airport trains, only the 2nd car was open. On the Bomber set returning from Newark on the PM trip, only the 2nd car was open. It's a common thing.

Want a train always guaranteed to have the 1st car open? The Cynwyd Car has you covered every time! ;)
"*BEEEEEP!!!* Three-Three! Three! No Alarms!"
(announcement from CN hotbox/dragging equipment detector, Milepost 33, track #3, Oakville Subdivision)
Silverliner II
 
Posts: 4310
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:04 am
Location: Somewhere near a Philly railroad line...

Re: SEPTA closes front seats on Silverliner V

Postby Clearfield » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:55 am

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:Not to nit pick but the rule DOES NOT require the front car open. It states that 2 cars must be open.


Not to nitpick but SPO 35 was amended 2 years ago April to require that the first two cars be open. :)
"The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one".............. Spock

My opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of any organization, Association, or Authority.
User avatar
Clearfield
 
Posts: 1980
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:36 pm
Location: Montgomery County, PA

Re: SEPTA closes front seats on Silverliner V

Postby scotty269 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:24 pm

Clearfield wrote:
BuddSilverliner269 wrote:Not to nit pick but the rule DOES NOT require the front car open. It states that 2 cars must be open.


Not to nitpick but SPO 35 was amended 2 years ago April to require that the first two cars be open. :)


Well, you might want to inform 95% of SEPTA conductors, then...
scotty269
 
Posts: 2727
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:47 am
Location: Manayunk, Philadelphia, PA

Re: SEPTA closes front seats on Silverliner V

Postby BuddSilverliner269 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:40 pm

EDIT: Bob, I have a copy of that SPO(remember my wife was working at Septa til last year and I do have a copy of this SPO), and it does state that the 2 CArs must be opened. It does say the 1st 2 cars.It says trains with more then 2 cars must have AT LEAST 2 cars open. Sorry!! Even before the SPO changed it said the first 2 cars althoug I think it should be up to the crew to decide what cars should be opened. I agree that more then 1 car should be opened as it was a pet peeve of mine as well. I use to argue with conductors that I worked with because it use to delay the train with just 1 doorway open, and when it delayed the train, it delayed me getting to my coffee break :)well I guess I willhave forgotten more then some of you willever know about railroading. Hahaha
Last edited by BuddSilverliner269 on Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BuddSilverliner269
 
Posts: 3662
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:40 am
Location: Trenton Line MP 30.70

Re: SEPTA closes front seats on Silverliner V

Postby JeffK » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:13 pm

Clearfield wrote:
JeffK wrote:But seriously, gang, what's the real issue with the front seats being closed? Is it whether we can take pictures or whether the cars have adequate passenger capacity?


The issue is capacity. With 700 trains a day, a loss of 2 seats per train equates to 1400 lost seats per day.

With rising gas prices, ridership is already up. SEPTA called the loss of the seats 'insignificant'. Tell that to the people who are standing.

It was originally a rhetorical question ... but the figure of 1400 seats per day solidifies my point. Anything that detracts from capacity and may drive (pun intended) prospective new riders away is not where SEPTA should be heading. Of course, how often is that factored into their decision-making process? (again, rhetorical)
User avatar
JeffK
 
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:05 pm
Location: Western suburbs

Re: SEPTA closes front seats on Silverliner V

Postby BuddSilverliner269 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:40 pm

Jeff, I understand where you and others have been going with the point that you are trying to make, but I feel as though the safety of the crew and passengers should come first. If seats are so much of an issue then maybe all of the 3 seaters should be put back in. DVARP supposedly did a study that showed people dont like to ride in the middle seat of a 3 seater, but I can almost guarantee you that theres many more peple that would want a seat and doesnt matter where its at then the people that supposedly took part in a study for DVARP. Many people dont like to sit backways but they still do it because they dont have a choice anymore, and because they want a seat.I have seen many other commuter agencies with 3 seaters and they are usually always taken. DVARP can argue the NY commuting market is different then the Philly market but people going to work, play etc are people going to work, platy etc and trains are trains so I dont see how there can be any difference in prefernces to where they sit? Sure trains are longer and heavier so seats are at a premium, but currently as it stands, trains are the heaviest in Philly that they have been in many years so seats are at a premium so in essence its the same argument being given for NYC My argument is, the SLV, has a small box cab and sits LESS people then the cars they are replacing that has a full width cab...HMMMMM? If its progress that everyone is supposedly championing for with these cars like sticking the engineer is a small cab that is supposedly safer, they why is it the cars will be carrying less people?I dont care what studies have been done and who was asked what questions, eliminating seats shouldnt be the answer.DVARP and Septa just ASSUMED that passengers dont want to ride in the middle of the 3 seaters just because the were asked and they stated they dont like it or prefer it. That assumption doesnt go for every person who rides a train so the 3 seater was eliminated , so it elimanated people being given the option to even sit in the middle seat...Options should begiven, not eliminated
BuddSilverliner269
 
Posts: 3662
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:40 am
Location: Trenton Line MP 30.70

Re: SEPTA closes front seats on Silverliner V

Postby Clearfield » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:33 pm

Guys, I can guarantee you that we won't settle it here on this forum.

In fact, WE won't settle it anywhere. Its not up to us.
"The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one".............. Spock

My opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of any organization, Association, or Authority.
User avatar
Clearfield
 
Posts: 1980
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:36 pm
Location: Montgomery County, PA

PreviousNext

Return to SEPTA (and PATCO)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests