Superliner and Amfleet Trucks

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Matt Johnson
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Re: Superliner and Amfleet Trucks

Post by Matt Johnson » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:02 pm

I just took a trip on a Keystone, and sat in the Metroliner cab control car. I think those trucks do actually give a superior ride. Shame they don't re-equip the Amfleets with those trucks!

Matt Johnson
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Re: Superliner and Amfleet Trucks

Post by Matt Johnson » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:34 pm

I stumbled across this video on youtube yesterday - check out the trucks on the Amfleet coach at 6:48. Those aren't the normal Pioneer trucks! Anyone know the story there?

And yes, I know I'm not normal for noticing that! :-D

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Re: Superliner and Amfleet Trucks

Post by Gilbert B Norman » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:35 pm

De-Motored and deactivated Metroliner Cab Car being used as a Coach.

Matt Johnson
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Re: Superliner and Amfleet Trucks

Post by Matt Johnson » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:59 pm

That was my first thought, but no, if you look closely it's definitely an Amfleet, and the trucks are different from the Metroliner trucks. They look more like the trucks used on the prototype Viewliner cars.

Nasadowsk
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Re: Superliner and Amfleet Trucks

Post by Nasadowsk » Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:57 pm

Might have been a test of some sort. The NYC subway did that from time to time.

I wonder how happy Amtrak is/was with the PIII - it really wasn't designed as a 'high speed' truck, per se.

Budd's patent http://www.google.com/patents/about?id= ... nt:2908230 talks about light weight, ease of maintenance, and resistance to derailment, but not much about high speeds or ride quality (which the spotty quality of their ride is another topic)

Wasn't the Amfleet more or less a 'take it or leave it' offer from Budd? nobody else was really building rail cars in the US at the time (Pullman was having their fun with the NYCTA...), and I'd imagine the political fallout of Amtrak buying something from overseas, would be.....

snitkofj
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Re: Superliner and Amfleet Trucks

Post by snitkofj » Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:58 pm

IIRC the Amfleet trucks will do the opposite of freight trucks in a derailment, I think it's they don't fall off so the cars will decelerate more slowly under the right conditions.

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Tadman
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Re: Superliner and Amfleet Trucks

Post by Tadman » Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:05 pm

That's a grainy video but the trucks look a lot like the trucks under South Shore and Metra EMU's built by Sumitomo/Nippon-Sharyo. Same cars as the Marc S/NS single level trailers.

edit: see these pics/vids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqFrCZG6wYM
http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?i ... 2&nseq=122
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 44&nseq=20
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 05&nseq=32

AMTK1007
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Re: Superliner and Amfleet Trucks

Post by AMTK1007 » Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:05 pm

Matt Johnson wrote:I stumbled across this video on youtube yesterday - check out the trucks on the Amfleet coach at 6:48. Those aren't the normal Pioneer trucks! Anyone know the story there?

And yes, I know I'm not normal for noticing that! :-D
I believe that was the car that was equipped with a set of trucks from Japan as a test...
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Finch
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Re: Superliner and Amfleet Trucks

Post by Finch » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:04 pm

And what *is* the deal with the Amfleet's truck design? The Superliner trucks look pretty traditional, but the Amfleet trucks have always looked like somebody just bolted a wheel on an axle and stuck it under a train car. I notice it now on a lot of commuter cars, but not so many longer-distance trains around the world. I gather the suspension itself is inside the wheels (the reason I've seen it referred to as an "inboard" truck, I guess), but how is this actually simpler to maintain? Or is it?
Just a couple notes for your information (unfortunately I can't answer your whole question).

1. Wheels are pressed onto the axle, not bolted. Friction is the only thing holding the wheel on the axle.

2. On an "inboard" truck, the bearings are located inboard of the wheels on the axles. That's what defines it.

Nasadowsk
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Re: Superliner and Amfleet Trucks

Post by Nasadowsk » Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:15 pm

Finch wrote: 1. Wheels are pressed onto the axle, not bolted. Friction is the only thing holding the wheel on the axle.
Pressed is an understatement - the pressure required is in the hundreds of tons range, IIRC. Done right, it won't come apart.

This is used on conventional trucks, also.
2. On an "inboard" truck, the bearings are located inboard of the wheels on the axles. That's what defines it.
Yes. The PIII is a really basic design, too. If you look up the patent, it's blindingly simple. Enough so that it's rather surprising it took so long to come about (I'm guessing bearing technology was the big holdup).

It was designed for the Pioneer III cars, then reused in most Budd MUs afterwards, except the M-3s. (The M-2/4/6 also don't, but none were Budd).

The original MU version was right angle drive, the later ones parallel drive. The Amfleet might have been the first non powered application, save for the one off prototype in the 50's (which might have been recycled into the LIRR turbine test...)

It wasn't the first - the PCC predates it, but likely the first in mainline service. AFAIK, no other country uses inboard bearing trucks in mainline service.

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Re: Superliner and Amfleet Trucks

Post by Jersey_Mike » Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:34 pm

What trucks does the Comet series use?

Nasadowsk
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Re: Superliner and Amfleet Trucks

Post by Nasadowsk » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:09 am

Jersey_Mike wrote:What trucks does the Comet series use?
I want to say GSI-70, but i'm not sure that's it. It *not* a Pioneer - look closely and you'll see it's more like a conventional truck.

Gilbert B Norman
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Re: Superliner and Amfleet Trucks

Post by Gilbert B Norman » Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:30 am

Gentlemen, take a hard look at the video, namely @ 6:48, then take a look at this high resolution photo of a Metroliner MU in Amtrak livery:

http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?j ... anColl.jpg

Note the striping through the doors on both the MU and on the "mystery car" within the video Mr. Johnson submitted; now show me any Amfleet so liveried.

Case closed; QED

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Re: Superliner and Amfleet Trucks

Post by mtuandrew » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:00 am

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Gentlemen, take a hard look at the video, namely @ 6:48, then take a look at this high resolution photo of a Metroliner MU in Amtrak livery:

http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?j ... anColl.jpg

Note the striping through the doors on both the MU and on the "mystery car" within the video Mr. Johnson submitted; now show me any Amfleet so liveried.

Case closed; QED
Case reopened. :-D

I'm not sure I see any striping on the doors, Mr. Norman. There might be a blue marking under the rear window of the mystery car, but that is shared by other cars within that consist, cars which are known to be Amfleets. The appliances under the mystery car as well as under the Amfleets being so alike, and so different from those under a demotored Metroliner, make me guess that the car is indeed an Amfleet I.

AMTK1007: Do you know any specifics about which company made those trucks? They really do look similar to those under the Nippon Sharyo single level South Shore cars.

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Re: Superliner and Amfleet Trucks

Post by DutchRailnut » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:51 am

I am not even sure that in 1981 Amtrak was coverting Metroliner shells for cabcars or coaches.
But I seem to remember one or two amfleet cars testing with Japanese Sumitomo trucks
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