Melrose station

Discussion relating to the Penn Central, up until its 1976 inclusion in Conrail. Visit the Penn Central Railroad Historical Society for more information.

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Postby Jeff Smith » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:25 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:you obviously did not read Penn Central's responce


Some folks just like to complain......whether it's about a directional signal or a bozo riding on top of an M-2.
Next stop, Willoughby
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Postby The Interloafer » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:32 pm

checkthedoorlight wrote:why would MNRR want to SHORTEN the platforms?


This is all just rumor, so take it with a grain of salt. But I believe the reason is ADA.

If you make "substantial improvements" to a station, you trigger ADA, which means that you'd have to install elevators and invest lots more $$$$ than you have. I heard they wanted to upgrade the station, but didn't have the resources to upgrade it enough to make it ADA accessible. Hence, you have what you have now: A nicer, but shorter station.
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Postby checkthedoorlight » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:11 pm

The reason to have a longer platform is not so much for the benefit of the passengers waiting on the platform as for the passengers on the train who will get off at Melrose or Tremont. By only having the first/last two cars platform, someone who is NOT in those cars must walk back, through the train. This delays what would otherwise be a quick stop. Announcements get made, but not everyone listens.
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Postby Erie-Lackawanna » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:21 pm

checkthedoorlight wrote:The reason to have a longer platform is not so much for the benefit of the passengers waiting on the platform as for the passengers on the train who will get off at Melrose or Tremont. By only having the first/last two cars platform, someone who is NOT in those cars must walk back, through the train. This delays what would otherwise be a quick stop. Announcements get made, but not everyone listens.

And for the once a year that happens, the railroad's perfectly willing to take the delay in exchange for the shorter and cheaper (to build & maintain) platforms.

Jim
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Postby Paul1705 » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:59 pm

Wasn't Melrose a candidate for abandonment at one time, like the now-gone stops at Morrisania and 183rd Street?
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Postby PC1100 » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:11 am

Melrose actually WAS abandoned for a short time back in 1988. However, by 1989 it was back in the timetables. Morrisania and 183rd Street were closed in 1973 shortly before the high level platforms were built in the Bronx. If you look at old NYC timetables going back to at least the 1950s, service to those two stops was very limited, especially 183rd Street. The NYC tried to close it around 1952 when they closed Claremont Parkway, but they were unsuccessful. Many of the Bronx local trains, which did stop at Melrose and Tremont, skipped Morrisania and 183rd. There must have been some ridership at Melrose, even in the early '70s, to justify building high levels.
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Postby Noel Weaver » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:23 am

PC1100 wrote:Melrose actually WAS abandoned for a short time back in 1988. However, by 1989 it was back in the timetables. Morrisania and 183rd Street were closed in 1973 shortly before the high level platforms were built in the Bronx. If you look at old NYC timetables going back to at least the 1950s, service to those two stops was very limited, especially 183rd Street. The NYC tried to close it around 1952 when they closed Claremont Parkway, but they were unsuccessful. Many of the Bronx local trains, which did stop at Melrose and Tremont, skipped Morrisania and 183rd. There must have been some ridership at Melrose, even in the early '70s, to justify building high levels.


When I was working for Metro-North between 1983 and the fall of 1987, I worked a few Harlem trains that stopped at Melrose. Seems that at the
time there was commuting from Melrose to stations in Westchester
County for domestic workers and probably others too.
In the New York Central days, they had to fight for permission before
they could close any stations and permission was often hard to come by.
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Re: Melrose station

Postby Union Tpke » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:22 am

According to two Harlem Line timetables in my collection Melrose was removed from the April 3, 1988 timetable but was reinstated on the June 19, 1988 timetable. There are two NY Times articles that describe the predicament of the station. https://www.nytimes.com/1988/03/29/nyre ... d-why.html
https://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/01/nyre ... ation.html

Do any of you guys know the exact closing dates for 183rd Street, Morrisania and Claremont Park? Thanks.
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Re: Melrose station

Postby Noel Weaver » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:47 pm

Union Tpke wrote:According to two Harlem Line timetables in my collection Melrose was removed from the April 3, 1988 timetable but was reinstated on the June 19, 1988 timetable. There are two NY Times articles that describe the predicament of the station. https://www.nytimes.com/1988/03/29/nyre ... d-why.html
https://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/01/nyre ... ation.html

Do any of you guys know the exact closing dates for 183rd Street, Morrisania and Claremont Park? Thanks.


Claremont Park closed before the others, it had been closed by the time I started firing in 1960. I believe Morrisania and 183re Street were closed at the same time but I will have to dig to find just when this happened. They talked about closing Wakefield at the same time but for some reason they did not, good thing too because today
Wakefield is a fairly busy stop.
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Re: Melrose station

Postby Backshophoss » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:34 pm

Melrose was was the 1 stop allowed for NHRR trains back in the day,and now is a restricted stop for MN's New Haven Line service now.
Was that a case for protecting "turf" for NY Central back then,now protecting Harlem line services?
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Re: Melrose station

Postby ExCon90 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:53 pm

I thought that was Fordham and that NH trains were not permitted to stop at other local stations (TT) east of Woodlawn to prevent "poaching" in NYC territory. I can't remember whether there was a restriction against NH trains carrying local passengers between Fordham and GCT.
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Re: Melrose station

Postby Noel Weaver » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:49 pm

ExCon90 wrote:I thought that was Fordham and that NH trains were not permitted to stop at other local stations (TT) east of Woodlawn to prevent "poaching" in NYC territory. I can't remember whether there was a restriction against NH trains carrying local passengers between Fordham and GCT.


At one time way back there were a couple of New Haven trains that made a station stop at Woodlawn, maybe the 20's or early 30's. Predates Fordham by a good many years. The New Haven did not handle any New York bound passengers east of Woodlawn.
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Re: Melrose station

Postby ExCon90 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:54 pm

Last night I checked some Official Guides (between 1958 and 1968) and the NH Stamford schedules showed no stations between 125th St. and Mount Vernon. The 1968 schedule, although after the PC merger, was before the NH was included. Now I'm wondering whether the Fordham stop was added after the inclusion, when the NYC-NH issue went away (I don't have any guides later than that). I'm also wondering whether it was about that time that a crossover was installed at Woodlawn permitting direct movement from the NH flyover to Track 4, which would permit a NH train stopping at Fordham to go directly to 4 without conflicting with a movement from Brewster going straight through on 2 -- previously the flyover trailed directly into 2, requiring a subsequent crossover move to get to 4, rarely needed when NH trains were not stopping at Fordham.
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