Interesting read regarding a photo "issue" on Amtr

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, Amtrak67 of America, Tadman, gprimr1

Interesting read regarding a photo "issue" on Amtr

Postby NV290 » Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:23 pm

Countries, like people, make friends with others one at a time. This is a story of one failure. In fairness to an unknown visitor to our country, imagine yourself in his place. The scene is on a recent Amtrak trip between New York City and Boston. The conductor collects tickets, requests identification, folds destination stubs into seatbacks, moves on to other cars. An older man across the aisle, traveling alone, shows his passport. It is clear from their conversation he doesn’t know English.

After decades as a frequent traveler, I have thousands of pictures -- scenery, buildings, people, architecture, from around the world. Today the train passes a lovely stretch of Connecticut shore, tidal marshes, nesting ospreys, the Long Island Sound. What little attention I pay as the visitor takes pictures, is that I’m impressed with his equipment. He and I, unknown to each other, are members of a picture-taking culture, fellow citizens of a show-and-tell world. I wonder if his will join the thousands on YouTube. I imagine, after his return home, how many friends he will impress with stories and pictures of this mild, early autumn, Saturday morning journey along the New England shoreline.

The train is a half hour west of New Haven when the conductor, having finished her original rounds, reappears. She moves down the aisle, looks, stops between our seats, faces the person taking pictures. “Sir, in the interest of national security, we do not allow pictures to be taken of or from this train.” He starts, “I…….” but, without English, his response trails off into silence. The conductor, speaking louder, forcefully: “Sir, I will confiscate that camera if you don’t put it away.” Again, little response. “Sir, this is a security matter! We cannot allow pictures.” She turns away abruptly and, as she moves down the aisle, calls over her shoulder, in a very loud voice, “Put. It. Away!” He packs his camera.

Within a minute after our arrival in New Haven, two armed police officers entered the car, approached my neighbor’s seat. “Sir, we're removing you from this train.” “I….;” “I……” “Sir, you have breached security regulations. We must remove you from this train.” “I…,” “I…..” “Sir, we are not going to delay this train because of you. You will get off, or we will remove you physically.” “I…..”

Nearby passengers stir. One says, “It’s obvious he doesn’t speak English. There are people here who speak more than one language. Perhaps we can help.” Different ones ask about the traveler’s language; learn he speaks Japanese. For me, a sudden flash of memory -- a student at International Christian University in Japan, I took countless pictures without arousing suspicion.

The police speak through the interpreter, with the impatience of authority. “The conductor asked this man three times to discontinue. We must remove him from the train.” The traveler hears the translation, is befuddled. Hidden beneath the commotion is a cross-cultural drama. With the appearance of police officers, this quiet visitor is embarrassed to find he is the center of attention. The officers explain, “After we remove him from the train, when we are through our investigation, we will put him on the next train.” The woman translates. The passenger replies, “I’m meeting relatives in Boston. They cannot be reached by phone. They expect me and will be worried when I do not arrive on schedule.” “Our task,” the police repeat, "is to remove you from this train. If necessary, we will do so by force. After we have finished the investigation, we’ll put you on another train.” The woman translates. The traveler gathers his belongings and departs.

My earlier suggestion that you imagine being in his place leaves you free to respond and draw your conclusions. Remember: you’ve been removed from the train, are being interrogated, perhaps having your equipment confiscated; while I continue to do what I take for granted – traveling unimpeded, on to Providence.

The more I replay the scene, the more troublesome it is. It is the stuff of nightmares. Relations between people and countries lie at the heart of the issue. The abstract terms that inform political and social debate appear, as if in person, unexpectedly, near enough to hear, touch, feel. Taking no position is not an option. As an educator, I would prepare and deliver a lecture on how others perceive America in the world community, then seek an audience. I'll spare you. But -- I just watched armed police officers remove a visitor from the train for taking pictures. I don't understand this. I’m disturbed – no, shaken – to bear witness to these events. Other passengers react with surprise and anger. “Since when is it illegal to take pictures?” “Nobody’s ever bothered me about it.” “Is the only photography allowed from the space station and Google Earth? These people take pictures of everything, including my house, without my permission, and they’re instantly available on the internet.” An older traveler reflected, “I witnessed this personally in police states during the war in Europe.”

In The Terror Presidency, Jack Goldsmith says it is right for a country to meet a threat in a way that keeps us safe, but must also “minimize unnecessary intrusion on …life, liberty and property.... and all those who are enjoying them with us.” One passenger asked, “Would someone please explain the threat posed by taking pictures from the train?”

In Matt Stoller’s review of A Tragic Legacy, he says the current administration has “transformed the way (people) speak about our country and its role in the world.” The good-versus-evil mentality has “altered the political system of our country” and our relationship with the rest of the world – in ways which are “inappropriate for a modern power in a time of global turmoil.”

It doesn't take more than five minutes, in any airport in this country, before I hear the loudspeaker, "The current terror threat is elevated." We hear “terror” endlessly – traveling, at home, on television, in the news. Recent political campaigns have reminded – no, badgered – us, to be very afraid. What did Franklin Roosevelt say, that “the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.” Terror. Paranoia. We can no longer differentiate between terrors. Is this our generation’s enlightened contribution to American culture?

Watching police escort a visitor off the train, I felt anger, not comfort. This action was beyond irritating. It is intolerable, unacceptable. If it bothered me, it paled in comparison to the way it inconvenienced, and will long trouble, this visitor to our country. We disrupted his travel plans and family reunion. Even greater than the psychological damage we inflicted is the harm we’ve done to ourselves. We missed an opportunity to show kindness, to be ambassadors of goodwill. The visitor will return home. He will indeed impress many people – not with pleasant memories and pictures of a quiet morning trip along the New England coast, but with a story of being removed and detained by American police for taking pictures. Do we imagine we’ve gained anything because a single visitor returns home with stories of mistreatment?

We engage in diplomacy whenever we have contact with visitors or travel abroad ourselves. If we conduct ourselves poorly as daily ambassadors, it is no wonder our country suffers a tarnished relationship with the world.

Written by Joel Merchant from

Even more inetesting was that somebody wrote Amtrak asking their photo policy on trains and got this:

Dear Amtrak Customer,

Thank you for your inquiry.

Photography is allowed onboard the train, and passengers are permitted to take pictures.

We hope this information will be helpful.

Customer Service

Is this happening often?
Posts: 788
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:03 pm

Postby Murjax » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:34 pm

I am just appalled. Taking rail videos is one of my favorite things to do when I go to the northeast. Now I am just afraid. What on earth is going on here. Will somebody please explain what the threat was? What on earth can be done with a camera. It's just a camera. I'm going to have to look into this seriously along with everybody else.
User avatar
Posts: 402
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: St. Augustine, FL

Postby John_Perkowski » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:17 pm

Moderator's Note:

Locked pending proof of bona fides.
~John Perkowski: Moderator: General Discussion: Locomotives, Rolling Stock, and Equipment
Assistant Administrator:
Please don't feed the spammers! If you see spam, please notify a Moderator
User avatar
Posts: 4541
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:12 pm
Location: Off the Q main near Parkville MO

Postby JoeG » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:19 pm

I do not believe that this story is true. I am going to lock this topic and kill it tomorrow, unless some evidence of its truthfulness is presented. If you have any actual evidence of the truth of this story, please PM me.

Postby Otto Vondrak » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:16 pm

This story is complete and utter bull. It is written in a vague style and has no specific details, yet is culled from various "horror stories" we have read that turn into "fish stories." Someone from Metro-North sent me this story as if it were gospel, I asked for train numbers and the chief's log reflecting the delay at New Haven. Haven't gotten them yet. Shame on Joel Merchant for playing up to our fears and discomfort. There's better ways to make a point- with facts. But then again, if you don't have the facts, JUST MAKE THEM UP.

Say goodnight, Gracie.

Moderator: New York State Railfan :: New York Central :: Toy Trains
NYW&B Fan Site :: A Magazine I Read Often :: A Museum I Volunteer At
User avatar
Otto Vondrak
Posts: 20200
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: New York

Postby Otto Vondrak » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:03 am

RAILROAD.NET member tgalvine requested I post the following information that he claims was emailed to him by the author of the piece, Mr. Merchant:

"Amtrak #2290, September 15, 2007, Acela express, the quiet car, female conductor, New York City to Boston, stopped at New Haven. The details (police badge numbers, etc.) is difficult for a person who lives in Hawaii who passes through New England periodically."

So far, my inquiries with Metro-North have turned up no record of delay to this train (the train was on MN property at the time of the incident, not Amtrak). If anyone else wants to investigate this matter further and report back to us with your findings, please contact me off-list.

We generally regard stories like this with a bit of suspicion. The problem of police harassing photographers is well known, but in our hysteria, so many stories turn into wild, fantastical urban legends, far removed from fact. With such an impassioned story from Mr. Merchant, I really would like to know more facts from independent sources.

Moderator: New York State Railfan :: New York Central :: Toy Trains
NYW&B Fan Site :: A Magazine I Read Often :: A Museum I Volunteer At
User avatar
Otto Vondrak
Posts: 20200
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: New York

Return to Amtrak

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: F40, ryanov and 9 guests