New Jersey Seashore Lines: was CNJ being cleard Woodmansie>N

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New Jersey Seashore Lines: was CNJ being cleard Woodmansie>N

Postby roymickle » Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:34 pm

Hello All,

I’ve seen on a couple of other forums that a portion of the CNJ is being cleared from Woodmansie northward. I rode by the area on Saturday to check it out. They’ve cleared the first mile from the sand pit to the crossing at Bullock completely. It looks like there’re working in the area of Wheatland currently. I noticed a few crossings missing also; be interesting to see what happens.

Here's a picture at the crossing at Bullock looking south (image undefined)

If I had taken a shot north, all you would see is trees.

It sure would be nice to see trains running in the pines again.. :P


Roy
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Postby JLo » Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:56 pm

Interesting, although I would think that this has to be motivated by something other than the resumption of train service. A utility ROW perhaps?
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Postby roymickle » Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:49 pm

JLo wrote:Interesting, although I would think that this has to be motivated by something other than the resumption of train service. A utility ROW perhaps?


The only thing in the area I can think of is white sand.
http://www.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&q=&om=1&z=16&ll=39.867851,-74.459195&spn=0.008515,0.017381&t=h

The clearing starts near were the loop track enters the main track and heads north. They did this in the late 80's for a little while.

There's a group who wants to make a railtrail out of the line but I would think they would have started at one end like Atsion, not in the middle of the woods at Woodmansie. I guess we'll either see crossings go in :-D or track come up :(.
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Postby Jtgshu » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:41 pm

Wow, I stand happily corrected!!!

I wouldn't think they could just make it a rail trail just like that, as either NJT or the NJDOT owns the line, IIRC, and they would have to draw up an agreement for leasing the ROW, clearning and maintaining and insurance purposes im sure. They had to do all that when Monmouth County decided they wanted to lease the Freehold Branch ROW from NJT and extend the Henry Hudson Trail

It will be interesting to see what is going on down there.......anyone see who is doing the work?
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Postby roymickle » Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:40 am

Jtgshu wrote:Wow, I stand happily corrected!!!

I wouldn't think they could just make it a rail trail just like that, as either NJT or the NJDOT owns the line, IIRC, and they would have to draw up an agreement for leasing the ROW, clearning and maintaining and insurance purposes im sure. They had to do all that when Monmouth County decided they wanted to lease the Freehold Branch ROW from NJT and extend the Henry Hudson Trail

It will be interesting to see what is going on down there.......anyone see who is doing the work?


I found an interesting web page on ownership.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_Transit_rail_operations#Non-operated_lines

Look under non-operated. It looks like clayton sand owns that section of r.o.w., NJT owns south. I noticed a new owner of the sand pit the other day so maybe they're going to make a try of the railroad thing.

I didn't see any equipment. It must be stored elsewhere.
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Postby peconicstation » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:07 am

Clayton Sand bought the section of the Southern Secondary from Lakehurst to their site near Woodmansie shortly after Conrail offically abandoned the line. Their site continued to be served by rail through the late 80's. On weekends you would see Hooper cars parked along the former secondary main just past the point where the line branched off to their pit. Parts of the Southern line below Woodmansie were sold off to other concerns, but NJT was able to buy back these segments, they saw no need to buy back the Clayton owned segment since Clayton wanted it for rail freight service.

If this part of the line is being cleared perhaps Clayton is planing on using rail service again.

The last Conrail Freight to operate south of the Clayton site was in 1978.
The blue comet site has the specifics.

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Postby Jtgshu » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:54 am

How far, milewise, is Woodmansie from Lakehurst? I don't have any of my CNJ books handy to see how many miles it is.... Looking at Google Earth, it looks to be about 5 miles or so.....is that correct?

As a seperate, but possibly related note, I don't understand why Conrail/NJT is rebuilding/contributing to a new bridge over the Coast Line in South Amboy (the old "sawtooth" PRR bridge). I konw it was heavily used for truck traffic to Amboy Aggrigates i think its called, but for a sometimes twice weekly freight train of usually less than a dozen cars, i can't see why they would spend many many dollars to build this bridge, when they have a relatively easy move at Essay (reverse down, and head west, or vice versa). Its not like this bridge is the only access to the line.

Maybe they have bigger plans for the Southern than any of us could imagine........(sand trains again, or whatever) I did hear a rumor about sand trains coming back about 3 years ago, but that was short lived.
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Postby CJPat » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:26 am

I don't know if this has any bearing but I am aware that Clayton is shutting down their operation off of County Rt 528 (or is it shut dwn already?) by the Jackson/Lakewood border (never had rail service that I am aware of) because of encroaching townhouse developments. I know they made a lot of decorative brick & block at that site. Maybe they are relocating that operation to Woodmansie?? Of course Clayton has many, many facilities in Ocean and Monmouth Counties.

Not to be a wet blanket, but does the cleared ROW in Woodmansie look like it might be setting up just to provide better truck access?
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Postby Ken W2KB » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:35 am

CJPat wrote:I don't know if this has any bearing but I am aware that Clayton is shutting down their operation off of County Rt 528 (or is it shut dwn already?) by the Jackson/Lakewood border (never had rail service that I am aware of) because of encroaching townhouse developments. I know they made a lot of decorative brick & block at that site. Maybe they are relocating that operation to Woodmansie?? Of course Clayton has many, many facilities in Ocean and Monmouth Counties.

Not to be a wet blanket, but does the cleared ROW in Woodmansie look like it might be setting up just to provide better truck access?


It would be difficult to get a paved road or a utility right of way permitted in the Pinelands, but suppose that could be the case. Easiest environmental permit to obtain could well be for rail. The clearing looks too narrow to be a firebreak, but it could be for firefighting access.
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Postby CRRNJ878 » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:17 am

It would be really interesting to see who's doing the work down there. Defenitely would give a better clue as to what's goin on.

I wish I could get down there during the week, unfortunately it's too far from north jersey with work....
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hi

Postby thebigham » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:56 am

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Re: hi

Postby peconicstation » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:14 pm

thebigham wrote:Is this trackage on this map?

http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?addr= ... name=&qty=


NO, the tracks run right alongside what the map refers to as Pasadena-Woodmansie Road, in fact this road continues on the other side of Route 72, but very few maps show it.

Strange that the map does show long gone tracks of the former Pennsylvania RR route through Whitings.

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Postby CRRNJ878 » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:13 am

anyone hear anything else on what's goin on down there?
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Postby CJPat » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:12 pm

I just got back from Woodmanse/Pasadena. I was very surprised by what I found. Starting at the Clayton sand pit, it looks like about 3.5 miles of ROW has been cleared (all except about a 100 yd stretch on the NE side of the Mt Misery Rd Grade crossing.

They are cutting all the trees branches and shrubs along the ROW to a width of about 25 ft.-30 ft. centered on the tracks. No stumps had been pulled but the trees were cut down to ground level and then shredded. There are numerous piles of woodchips along the ROW.

As the original picture shows at the beginning of the thread, the ROW is now clear from the Clayton Driveway on Savoy Blvd all the way to the crossing at Mt Misery Rd. The there is the 100 yd stretch that is covered in young pine trees and hasn't been touched. The clearing operation picks up from there and continues in the direction of Whiting.

As of today, the work crew was about a little less than 1/2 a mile NE of the Mt Misery Pasadena Rd. grade crossing (about half way to the Buckingham Rd. Crossing) and they were continuing their way towards Whiting.

Because the crew was so far beyond the Mt Misery Pasadena Rd. grade crossing , I could not make out who was doing the work. As best as I could tell was that a small work crew was operating out of a white utility body pickup. Without knowing who owns what out there, I was hesitant to wander down to their site (you are starting to get out in the sticks out there). So work is progressing onward. The roadbed looks good!

I didn't head any further south on Savoy Blvd than the 2nd Clayton driveway. The ROW in that location had not been touched at all so I didn't think it was worth continuing any further south.

Well, I feel pretty confident to say that the clearing operation isn't for a road or firebreak. And I would think the 25 ft wide clearing would be too narrow to erect High Tension Towers (like those running along the PRR ROW through Whiting). I guess they could construct a pipeline through a run like that. But what would it be connecting between? Regular utilities would have run along Pasadena Rd.

From my untrained eye, it sure looks like they could be restoring the ROW for rail ops. Of course it is way to early to go that route. No track has been touched to date. Only the trees & shrubs.
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Postby peconicstation » Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:34 pm

Perhaps someone can call Clayton and ask if they are once again going to ship to their Woodmansie site via rail ??

The roadbed from their site north does not look bad in spots since a number of crossties were replaced back when Clayton was still getting shipments by rail in the late 80's.

For those who have the chance to check out the progress first hand, keep us posted.

Thanks!

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