NJT won't meet PTC Deadline

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Re: NJT won't meet PTC Deadline

Postby andrewjw » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:07 pm

At worst, they can decrease the amount of Midtown Direct service and terminate the Atlantic City trains in Lindenwold or Pennsauken. This would be like Summer of Hell service.
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Re: NJT won't meet PTC Deadline

Postby trainster78 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:45 am

What other commuter roads are destined to miss the deadline? From what I've heard, NJT is either just below or just over 50% complete with about 5 months left until the deadline.
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Re: NJT won't meet PTC Deadline

Postby DutchRailnut » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:53 am

As of a March 31 Federal Railroad Administration report, only 172 of 1100 NJT employees have been trained on PTC, just 37 of 124 required radio towers have been installed, and only six miles of track equipped; presumably, this is the Morristown-Denville segment referred to in the Spielman article. Only 13% of PTC hardware has been installed by NJT, ranking NJT as fourth lowest among 26 commuter railroads required to install PTC. The PATH system was 86% complete as of the March report. NJT reportedly has made progress since March, equipping 43 locomotives for PTC, installing 44 radio towers, and training 309 employees; apparently these figures are in addition to the numbers reported by the FRA.
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Re: NJT won't meet PTC Deadline

Postby NorthPennLimited » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:24 pm

I heard from one of the conductors on my train ride home that SEPTA and NJT are working out the details of possibly leasing the now mothballed SEPTA AEM-7 and ALP-44 fleet to NJT to help with the equipment shortage and lack of PTC equipped locomotive power.

However, SEPTA’s AEM-7 fleet is in poor shape (mechanically) and fails to meet federal requirements for toilets and water coolers
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Re: NJT won't meet PTC Deadline

Postby amtrakhogger » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:21 pm

NorthPennLimited wrote:I heard from one of the conductors on my train ride home that SEPTA and NJT are working out the details of possibly leasing the now mothballed SEPTA AEM-7 and ALP-44 fleet to NJT to help with the equipment shortage and lack of PTC equipped locomotive power.

However, SEPTA’s AEM-7 fleet is in poor shape (mechanically) and fails to meet federal requirements for toilets and water coolers


Silly question, why not pull some of their own Alp44's from storage?
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Re: NJT won't meet PTC Deadline

Postby DutchRailnut » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:37 pm

they still would not have PTC equipment , the SEPTA fleet does.
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Re: NJT won't meet PTC Deadline

Postby amtrakhogger » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:09 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:they still would not have PTC equipment , the SEPTA fleet does.


Ok, thanks.
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Re: NJT won't meet PTC Deadline

Postby EuroStar » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:50 am

NorthPennLimited wrote:I heard from one of the conductors on my train ride home that SEPTA and NJT are working out the details of possibly leasing the now mothballed SEPTA AEM-7 and ALP-44 fleet to NJT to help with the equipment shortage and lack of PTC equipped locomotive power.

However, SEPTA’s AEM-7 fleet is in poor shape (mechanically) and fails to meet federal requirements for toilets and water coolers


In my view the AEM-7s are a lost cause. I highly doubt that NJT will be able to keep any of SEPTA's AEM-7s running for any meaningful period of time. Amtrak's toasters were much better maintained, but even if they were available (I lost track, have all of them met the scrapper already?) they likely would not have been allowed past December 31st this year. NJT is likely to have better luck with the lonely SEPTA ALP-44 as they can use their own mothballed fleet for parts, but really how is one engine going to solve the problem?

On a related topic: PATH seems to be having lots of signal issues these days(practically every day last week) and I am guessing that they are related to PTC with NJT cross-honouring. Does anyone think NJT will avoid similar signal issues while the system is being brought online whenever that happens? I don't think so. I expect an enormous mess come January 1.
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Re: NJT won't meet PTC Deadline

Postby EuroStar » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:47 am

As per NJT board presentation as of September 7:
131 pieces of equipment (read cab cars and engines) have PTC gear installed with 151 left to go
19 poles remain out of 111
27 antennas remain out of 111
21 wayside units remain out of 119
44 people need training out of 1305

PTC test area has been extended to between Denville andSummit (it had been between Denville and Morristown).
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Re: NJT won't meet PTC Deadline

Postby dowlingm » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:52 pm

EuroStar wrote:
NorthPennLimited wrote:I heard from one of the conductors on my train ride home that SEPTA and NJT are working out the details of possibly leasing the now mothballed SEPTA AEM-7 and ALP-44 fleet to NJT to help with the equipment shortage and lack of PTC equipped locomotive power.

However, SEPTA’s AEM-7 fleet is in poor shape (mechanically) and fails to meet federal requirements for toilets and water coolers


In my view the AEM-7s are a lost cause. I highly doubt that NJT will be able to keep any of SEPTA's AEM-7s running for any meaningful period of time. Amtrak's toasters were much better maintained, but even if they were available (I lost track, have all of them met the scrapper already?) they likely would not have been allowed past December 31st this year. NJT is likely to have better luck with the lonely SEPTA ALP-44 as they can use their own mothballed fleet for parts, but really how is one engine going to solve the problem?
What about Amtrak HHP-8s?
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Re: NJT won't meet PTC Deadline

Postby DutchRailnut » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:01 pm

they are not Amtrak and no they do not have current PTC equipment .
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Re: NJT won't meet PTC Deadline

Postby njt/mnrrbuff » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:08 pm

The Amtrak HHP-8s will never turn a wheel ever again. They were unreliable from the start. The Septa toasters will probably never turn a wheel ever again once they are retired.

It looks like according to the meeting, we are still a ways away from PTC.

Path is better than NJT but they still have their issues and I believe that their signaling system is getting upgraded which is about time, and they are getting PTC. On the shoulder of rush hours, it would be nice to close the headways, especially on the NWK-WTC line.
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Re: NJT won't meet PTC Deadline

Postby Hawaiitiki » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:43 am

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:Path is better than NJT but they still have their issues and I believe that their signaling system is getting upgraded which is about time, and they are getting PTC. On the shoulder of rush hours, it would be nice to close the headways, especially on the NWK-WTC line.


PATH is perhaps better than NJT in terms of PTC installation, but certainly under reported by the media, they have had their worst quality service they have offered in decades this past 2 years. They blame it all on PTC as a deflection, but the cause is mismanagement and corruption at the top of the NJ/NY food chains.

The Port Authority is allowed to operate with minimal oversight combined withpoliticians in Jersey City and Harrison allowing all of these new developments with tax breaks without considering the fact that their main artery of transportation can't handle any more volume.

That said, I'm all for improved headways but things won't improve until development slows and Grove Street gets renovated to handle an additional car or two which is another project on PA's plate that gets almost no press and is far more important than EWR extension.
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Re: NJT won't meet PTC Deadline

Postby TDowling » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:01 pm

Does this affect the contractual service NJT operates with Metro North? I've heard it said that the port jervis service is njt in virtually every aspect except its name.
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Re: NJT won't meet PTC Deadline

Postby mtuandrew » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:53 pm

Yeah, Amtrak doesn’t have spare 100+ mph, NYP-capable equipment with ACSES II installed. Wonder if MARC has spare Hippos or SC-44s with PTC. The SEPTA AEM-7s may not run under their own power for long, but they can theoretically be cab cars.
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