Penalty For Progress - PTC

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Penalty For Progress - PTC

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:59 pm

https://youtu.be/3LJRPNMj8Ho

One would think the activation of Positive Train Control would expedite efficiency over lines so equipped.

Well not so; at least on the BNSF.
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Re: Penalty For Progress - PTC

Postby justalurker66 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:12 pm

Metra has also announced schedule changes and one train's deletion on the Metra Electric District. As the video mentions:
"Schedule changes are coming to most Metra lines, starting with the BNSF line, due to the implementation of the Positive Train Control (PTC) safety system."
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Re: Penalty For Progress - PTC

Postby MetraBNSF » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:49 am

The proposed BNSF schedule has not been very well received based on social media with the deadline to submit feedback being April 15. I do like that another westbound afternoon rush hour express train is being added. Splitting up some Naperville/Rt. 59 commuters looks good on paper and will be interesting to see what sets get used for Lisle/Naperville/Aurora and DG/Belmont/59. On the eastbound side, one of the deadheads (train 1278) is being converted into a revenue run, but only stops at LaGrange Rd before heading to CUS. When comparing the current vs. the proposed schedule a lot of runs either begin earlier or later depending on the train.
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Re: Penalty For Progress - PTC

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:37 am

Gotta wonder, what's going to happen to 1272, which I think "flips" for 1263. 1272 is what I ride when going in for the Symphony. It's a non-stop from LaGrange, and allows adequate time for a pre-concert dinner.
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Re: Penalty For Progress - PTC

Postby justalurker66 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:17 pm

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Gotta wonder, what's going to happen to 1272, which I think "flips" for 1263. 1272 is what I ride when going in for the Symphony. It's a non-stop from LaGrange, and allows adequate time for a pre-concert dinner.

1272 is on the proposed schedule (LaGrange 4:34pm. CUS 4:53pm)
https://metrarail.com/sites/default/fil ... w_bnsf.pdf
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Re: Penalty For Progress - PTC

Postby MetraBNSF » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:11 pm

I took a long look at both the current and proposed schedules and there are definitely some eye opening observations. I'll only highlight some of the major changes.

Eastbound:
1200: First train of the day. Currently departs Aurora at 4:30 AM and makes intermediate stops to LaGrange, then expresses to CUS. Arrives CUS 5:32 AM. Under the proposed schedule, this train will depart Aurora at 4:14 AM, arriving CUS at 5:19 AM. This train becomes 1201. Currently departs CUS at 5:55 AM and makes intermediate stops to Naperville, arriving 6:55 AM. Under the proposed schedule, this train will depart CUS at 5:31 AM and arrive Naperville at 6:38 AM.

1204: First Downers Grove express of the day. Currently departs Aurora at 5:25 AM, arrives CUS at 6:22 AM. Under the proposed schedule, it will leave Aurora at 5:11 AM and arrive CUS at 6:12 AM. This train also makes two additional revenue trips during the morning rush. This run becomes train 1205, a Downers Grove express that currently departs CUS at 6:32 AM, arrives Aurora at 7:26 AM. It then becomes train 1252, a Naperville express which departs Aurora at 7:42 AM and arrives CUS at 8:34 AM. Under the proposed schedule, 1205 will depart CUS at 6:29 AM but arrive in Aurora at the same time as current. 1252 will depart Aurora 10 minutes later and arrive CUS at 8:46 AM.

1210 and 1212 are flipping spots.
Current 1210 is a Naperville express departing Aurora at 6:02 AM, arriving CUS at 6:53 AM.
Current 1212 is a local departing Aurora at 5:40 AM, arriving CUS 7:00 AM.

Under the proposed schedule:
1210 becomes the local train, departing Aurora at 5:32 AM. It also does not make stops until DG Main St. Arrives CUS at 6:47 AM.
1212 becomes a Naperville express, departing Aurora at 5:54 AM, arriving CUS at 6:51 AM.
That makes two Naperville express trains in a 9 minute span.

1216, which currently originates at Highlands at 6:38 AM and arrives CUS 7:07 AM will add stops at Brookfield, Riverside, and Berwyn, arriving CUS at 7:01 AM.

1220, currently a Naperville express that departs Aurora at 6:27 AM, arrives CUS at 7:18 AM will become a DG express that originates at Lisle. It will depart at 6:37 AM, arriving CUS at 7:14 AM.

1222, currently originating at Brookfield at 6:50 AM, arriving CUS at 7:22 AM will become a Naperville express. Depart Aurora 6:24 AM, arrive CUS 7:18 AM.

1224, currently a DG express that originates at Lisle at 6:52 AM, arrive CUS 7:28 AM will become a local from Aurora. It will depart at 6:11 AM and arrive CUS at 7:33 AM.

1228, currently a Naperville express that departs Aurora at 6:47 AM, arrives CUS at 7:40 AM will become a DG express that originates at Lisle. It will depart at 7:03 AM, arriving CUS at 7:41 AM.

1230, currently a local run that departs Aurora at 6:22 AM, arrives CUS at 7:44 AM. Under the proposed schedule, this will become a Naperville express, departing Aurora at 6:49 AM, arriving CUS at 7:45 AM.

1232, currently a DG express that originates at Lisle at 7:13 AM, arrives CUS at 7:49 AM will become a run that originates at Fairview at 7:03 AM and makes most stops to Congress Park, then express to CUS, arriving 7:50 AM.

1234 is currently the run that originates at Fairview, mentioned in the above post under the proposed schedule. 1234 on the proposed schedule will become a Naperville express, departing Aurora at 7:01 AM, arriving CUS at 7:55 AM.

1236, currently a Naperville express (depart Aurora 7:07 AM, arrive CUS 8:02 AM) will become a DG express that originates at Lisle (dep Lisle 7:24 AM, arr CUS 8:00 AM).

1238, currently a Hinsdale express that originates at Fairview (dep Fairview 7:28 AM, arr CUS 8:05 AM) will become a Naperville express (dep Aurora 7:17 AM, arr CUS 8:11 AM)

1240, currently a DG express that originates at Lisle (dep Lisle 7:33 AM, arr CUS 8:10 AM) will become a run that originates at Fairview at 7:35 AM and makes most stops to LaGrange Rd, then express to CUS, arriving 8:16 PM.

1242, currently a Naperville express (dep Aurora 7:22 AM, arr CUS 8:15 AM) will become a local that originates from Brookfield (dep Brookfield 7:50 AM, arr CUS 8:21 AM).

1244, currently a local that originates at Brookfield (dep Brookfield 7:45 AM, arr CUS 8:17 AM) will become a DG express that originates from Lisle (dep Lisle 7:49 AM, arr CUS 8:26 AM).

1246, currently originates at Aurora at 7:03 AM and makes all stops to LaGrange Rd (except West Hinsdale). It then runs as an express to Western Ave and makes all stops to CUS, arriving 8:22 AM. Under the proposed schedule, this run becomes a Naperville express. Depart Aurora 7:34 AM, arrive CUS 8:30 AM.

1248, currently a Hinsdale express that originates at Fairview (dep Hinsdale 7:48 AM, arr CUS 8:23 AM) will become the current 1246 listed above, depart Aurora 7:12 AM, arrive CUS 8:35 AM.

1250, currently a DG express that originates at Lisle (dep Lisle 7:51 AM, arr CUS 8:27 AM) will become a run that originates at Fairview at 7:59 AM and makes most stops to LaGrange Rd, then express to CUS, arriving 8:40 AM.

1252 - See 1204 above.

Trains not listed do not change positions but have later departure times of up to 10 minutes from the current schedule.

1278 is not listed on the current schedule as it is a deadhead train that turns from OB train 1245. Under the proposed schedule and assuming the equipment cycle remains the same, 1245 turns to 1278 at DG Main and will deadhead to LaGrange Rd with a stop at 5:19 PM. It will then express to CUS, arriving 5:38 PM. This run currently becomes train 1279 and appears to remain so under the proposed schedule.

Westbound:
No major changes really take place until the 4pm hour. The first afternoon rush train to experience a change will be train 1247. It currently departs CUS at 4:28 PM and makes all stops out to Cicero. From there, it expresses to Fairview Ave and makes all stops to Aurora, arriving 5:36 PM. Under the proposed schedule, this train will leave 11 minutes earlier at 4:17 PM, eliminate the Western Ave and Cicero stops, then run express to Fairview and local to Aurora, arriving 5:23 PM.

There has been talk in the past of the addition of another afternoon express train to the schedule. The proposed schedule will account for it.

1251, departs CUS at 4:44 PM is an express to Downers Grove, then makes all stops to Aurora, arriving 5:43 PM. Under the proposed schedule, this train will become a Naperville express, departing CUS at 4:38 PM and arriving Aurora at 5:31 PM.

1253, departs CUS at 4:48 PM is a local that makes most stops to Aurora, arriving 6:08 PM. This train then turns into EB train 1292, departing Aurora at 6:20 PM, arriving CUS at 7:40 PM. Under the proposed schedule, the current 1253 becomes a Downers Grove express, making its last stop at Lisle at 5:22 PM.

1255, departs CUS at 4:53 PM is an express to LaGrange Rd after making a stop at Halsted St. It makes all stops from LaGrange to Fairview. Under the proposed schedule, 1255 will lose some of its express characteristics. It will depart CUS at 4:52 PM and make stops at Halsted, Berwyn, Riverside, and Brookfield before making all stops from LaGrange to Fairview. Th is train currently upon completion of its run at Fairview deadheads back to CUS and becomes train 1373. The “new” 1255 gains the stops from 1253.

The following trains are Naperville and Route 59 expresses only: 1257, 1267, 1283
The following trains are Downers Grove/Belmont/Lisle/Aurora expresses: 1259, 1269, 1373

Under the proposed schedule, all of these trains will be assigned different stops:
1257, 1267, and 1283 will stop at Lisle, Naperville, and Aurora.
1259, 1269, and 1373 will stop at Downers Grove, Belmont, and Route 59.

The rest of the proposed westbound schedule features changes in departure, run, and arrival times.

All told, there will be a total of 95 weekday trains (one more than the current schedule). When PTC is not factored in, it appears the middle zone express trains (those that serve the corridor between Congress Park and Fairview) are being taken away to provide for additional far zone trains (DG through Aurora). I believe BNSF ridership continues to go up but at a smaller pace than in the past. Basically all of the ridership growth is from Downers Grove to Aurora. It will be interesting to see what the final schedule will look like when its released.
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Re: Penalty For Progress - PTC

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:22 am

Mr. METRA/BNSF, that's a great piece of work you did for any of us potentially affected by the "PTC Penalty for Progress".

1272, the one I take in for Chicago Symphony concerts, as is 1297 (1040P) - the one I take home. The concerts are generally done around 1015P and even closing in on 77, the Good Lord still allows "Mr. Shanks and Miss Mare" to get me X the Loop in 15 minutes.

But I can recall during 2010 - and before the CSO included playing time of the works in the Program Notes - one concert did not let out until about 1035. It was a Saturday and it was a long LONG wait for 1325 (1240A).

Wonder why I avoid Saturday concerts?
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Re: Penalty For Progress - PTC

Postby doepack » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:31 am

MetraBNSF wrote:1253, departs CUS at 4:48 PM is a local that makes most stops to Aurora, arriving 6:08 PM. This train then turns into EB train 1292, departing Aurora at 6:20 PM, arriving CUS at 7:40 PM. Under the proposed schedule, the current 1253 becomes a Downers Grove express, making its last stop at Lisle at 5:22 PM.


I wonder if this train will flip to an "adjusted" inbound DH 1286, starting from Lisle instead of its current origin at Congress Pk. And llkewise, if 1261 flips to an adjusted DH 1284 at CP...

MetraBNSF wrote: When PTC is not factored in, it appears the middle zone express trains (those that serve the corridor between Congress Park and Fairview) are being taken away to provide for additional far zone trains (DG through Aurora).


I didn't get that impression at first, but after taking a closer look at both schedules, that's a valid point. I looked for express service between CUS and anywhere between Congress Pk. and Fairview, and found that the current schedule shows nine of these trains, but is reduced on the proposed schedule to seven. But the reduction is more noticeable in the evening rush, with five on the current schedule, and only two on the proposed.

Further, I replied to Metra about a possible change to one of the weekend trains, despite their statement saying that there would be no changes to the weekend schedule. Anyway I'm thinking that Saturday's 1301 could be moved up 10 minutes to a 6:40am departure, since it's inbound counterpart 1300 arrives CUS at 6:21, or perhaps a few minutes earlier if it's a good run. Even so, given the forecasted PTC induced delays in flipping trains, keeping an on-time 6:30 departure could be a tall order...
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Re: Penalty For Progress - PTC

Postby justalurker66 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:04 pm

I don't understand why the system has to be reloaded for a return trip on the same rails originally traveled. What would a freight railroad do with a local that would normally work on a "work between" track warrant (or otherwise make reverse moves during the trip? It is a shame they cannot load the system for the entire district before the first run and use that data the entire day. (The only thing I can think of is because they are using different cabs for each direction of running and loading the inbound cab does not load the data in the outbound cab. That would still get in the way of a freight train that used more than one cab.
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Re: Penalty For Progress - PTC

Postby justalurker66 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:12 am

MED is cutting over 11th St next weekend ...
Metra Alert ME - Signal project to affect Metra Electric & South Shore Thursday 4/26 through Sunday 4/29
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Re: Penalty For Progress - PTC

Postby MetraBNSF » Fri May 25, 2018 5:13 pm

I’m starting to think recent delays on BNSF can be attributed to PTC. On a couple of instances I’ve heard announcements that a train is delayed x number of minutes due to issues with dispatching. That is something I’ve never really heard. If it takes time to load the system for the next run after completing the last one, it’s certainly being felt.
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Re: Penalty For Progress - PTC

Postby MetraBNSF » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:31 pm

It will be interesting to see how BNSF suburban operations will change when the new schedule takes effect in a few short hours. I don’t see the morning rush very often but the afternoon will certainly be worth observing. Particularly if trains can keep schedule, routings, and what sets will be used for certain trains. The long range express trains will certainly be of note, especially those in which stops were changed.
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Re: Penalty For Progress - PTC

Postby MetraBNSF » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:58 pm

Based on media reports and anecdotal evidence, it appears the first day of BNSF service under the revised schedule did not go well. Particularly the morning rush hour where many trains seemed to be short a car and passengers were literally packed in like sardines. I don't really get to see the morning rush, but I was able to observe the afternoon rush in bits and pieces from CUS and in the west suburbs. These are some of my observations. It is important to note that what happens on the first day will not necessarily be what is expected moving forward and much can still be tweaked.

First, cab car 8518 which is normally assigned to the Milwaukee District is on BNSF and is operating as a control car. It is also a rehabbed car. This may explain why 8608 is on the Milwaukee.

At CUS, there are definitely track assignment changes. I was able to take a look at the monitors for trains leaving CUS between 4:25 and 5:15 and there are notable changes.

1249, a local train to Fairview Ave departed from track 2.
1251, the new Naperville/Route 59/Aurora express retains its track 12 assignment.
1253, the new Downers Grove/Belmont/Lisle express boarded from track 6.
1257, a reassigned Lisle/Naperville/Aurora express boarded from track 12.
1259, a reassigned Downers Grove/Belmont/Route 59 express boarded from track 2.

Observed consists:
1249 8 cars. Upon termination at Fairview, this train deadheads back to CUS and becomes train 1283, a reassigned Lisle/Naperville/Aurora express.
1251 Did not see this particular consist, but assuming it remains a 10 car consist.
1253 8 cars. Upon termination at Lisle, this train deadheads back to CUS and becomes train 1373, a reassigned Downers Grove/Belmont/Route 59 express.
1255 7 cars.
1257 9 cars.
1259 11 cars. This train still appeared to be very crowded with Route 59 passengers even after DG and Lisle passengers got off.
1267 11 cars.
1269 9 cars. Although the stopping pattern of this train changed (Downers Grove/Belmont/Route 59), it retained the same number of cars. This train also still appeared to be very crowded with Route 59 passengers even after DG and Lisle passengers got off.
1277 10 cars. No change in consist and stops.
1279 7 cars. No change in consist and stops.

Next goal is to see the CUS track assignments from 5:15-7:03 PM.
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Re: Penalty For Progress - PTC

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:06 am

Mr. MetraBNSF, now that Clarendon Hills ticket office has been closed (Westmont as well?), I can't get the new schedule - at least in print.

Thanks for your "on the ground" observations of how the transition is moving forth.

"Oh for the days when residing in 'The Land of the Burlingtons' meant the Standard".
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