Regional rail to Pottstown

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Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Postby mcgrath618 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:58 pm

Backshophoss wrote:How active is freight service to Pottstown? NS will balk on any extension of wire to there.

They could restore part of the ROW to be passenger exclusive
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Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Postby ChesterValley » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:32 pm

mcgrath618 wrote:
Backshophoss wrote:How active is freight service to Pottstown? NS will balk on any extension of wire to there.

They could restore part of the ROW to be passenger exclusive


I don't know how familiar you are with that area, but that ROW goes though Abrams Yard at King of Prussia, which is a part of Norfolk Southern's Harrisburg Line http://www.parailfan.com/NS/ns_harrisburg_line.html. Now I don't know too much about how much they move, but every time I'm in Valley Forge there is always a big old freight train moving though. NS would probably balk at the copper because it would conflict with the double stacked containers let alone the disruptions of passenger rail. I would enjoy to see the Valley forge and Port Kennedy Rail stations re-opened for service, but I'm highly skeptical.

I was talking to a PennDOT employee, and he was saying SEPTA was floating out a NHSL extension proposal in the middle of 422 to get to Phoenixville which was shot down because the bridges were too small to accommodate the railcars.
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Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Postby mcgrath618 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:49 pm

ChesterValley wrote:
mcgrath618 wrote:
Backshophoss wrote:How active is freight service to Pottstown? NS will balk on any extension of wire to there.

They could restore part of the ROW to be passenger exclusive


I don't know how familiar you are with that area, but that ROW goes though Abrams Yard at King of Prussia, which is a part of Norfolk Southern's Harrisburg Line http://www.parailfan.com/NS/ns_harrisburg_line.html. Now I don't know too much about how much they move, but every time I'm in Valley Forge there is always a big old freight train moving though. NS would probably balk at the copper because it would conflict with the double stacked containers let alone the disruptions of passenger rail. I would enjoy to see the Valley forge and Port Kennedy Rail stations re-opened for service, but I'm highly skeptical.

I was talking to a PennDOT employee, and he was saying SEPTA was floating out a NHSL extension proposal in the middle of 422 to get to Phoenixville which was shot down because the bridges were too small to accommodate the railcars.

Then you could restore the remaining ROW, and use the outer track for passenger only. This doesn’t have to be too hard if NS doesn't want it to be.
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Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Postby Backshophoss » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:45 am

You have the problem of the single track tunnel,as this is a double stack route,forget the wire,the trick is to get SEPTA to work with
diesel powered equipment again,which may as well be a LOST cause. :(
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Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Postby nova08 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:16 am

There are 5 road trains and 2-4 locals that move between Abrams and the NS Morrisville line using the bridge over the Schuylkill river and Septa trackage. There are another ~4 road trains that run East/West from Camden/Philly and 4 locals that run east of Abrams.
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Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Postby glennk419 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:28 am

Backshophoss wrote:How active is freight service to Pottstown? NS will balk on any extension of wire to there.


Septa could always go dual-mode, namely the ALP-45DP's. NJT allegedly has more dual mode loco's in it's new budget, they could tack a few units onto that order.
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Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Postby mtuandrew » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:38 pm

What about detouring around the Black Rock Tunnel? It's the only major chokepoint. By exiting the Harrisburg Line at Perkiomen Jct, using the mothballed Phoenixville Industrial Track + former power station track, and reentering at CP Cromby, SEPTA can add a stop at the Greater Philadelphia Expo Center (a potential park & ride) and more importantly, can wire the entire route without ever crossing the NS main; it only needs to clear Plate F and CRRC bilevels, not Plate H double-stacks.

It does require taking part of the Schuylkill River Trail for a few miles north of Phoenixville to restore the old PRR, as well as buying/leasing and upgrading several miles of industrial FRA Class 1 or Excepted track. This is all additional to the $1b that NS will require for a third or fourth track Norrisville - Valley Forge and Cromby - Pottsville.

So. If SEPTA magically got $1b on top of the $1b it needs for deferred maintenance, is this possible?
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Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Postby Backshophoss » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:10 pm

Figure on the Trail people to throw a NIMBY fit on that idea,from the get go. :(
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Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Postby ChesterValley » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:18 pm

They also could run pure diesel sets from 30th if they reactivate Cynwyd back to Ivy ridge and have a connection onto the Reading Line, but that would most likely require the bridge at 52nd street to be replaced first with additional interlockings set up at Manayunk. I think that was an alternate plan for the SVM if I'm not mistaken.

While I would doubt that Harrisburg or the Feds would pony up that sort of money, in light of the P&W extension along with the Trolley replacement programs on top of differed maintenance repairs I really hope they pull this off. But again, the Feds seem to prefer light rail projects.
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Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Postby ChesterValley » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:19 pm

Pottstown Merc had an article on it http://www.pottsmerc.com/general-news/20180810/task-force-looks-to-return-rail-service-to-phoenixville

You should see the cost estimate
But Frawley’s initial investigation suggests it could be done for much less, partially because service would not be extended beyond Phoenixville.

According to his presentation, he estimated it would cost just under $15 million to extend SEPTA’s R-6 suburban rail line to Phoenixville and an annual $2.7 million for operations and maintenance.
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Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Postby Return to Reading Company Olney Sta » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:03 pm



The Amtrak Autumn Express of 2014 shown in the file photo accompanying the article.
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Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Postby CNJGeep » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:13 pm

ChesterValley wrote:They also could run pure diesel sets from 30th if they reactivate Cynwyd back to Ivy ridge and have a connection onto the Reading Line, but that would most likely require the bridge at 52nd street to be replaced first with additional interlockings set up at Manayunk.

Nothing needs to be done with the 52nd Street Flyover. It has been retired and removed from service.
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Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Postby zebrasepta » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:32 pm

“The issues involved revolve around sharing the rails with the Norfolk-Southern freight line and the only practical way to do that is to electrify the entire line or use some kind of hybrid that hasn’t been invented yet,” Styche said last month.

I guess he doesn't know about the ALP-45DPs
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Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Postby Backshophoss » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:54 pm

Very unlikely SEPTA will consider the BBD AL45DP, or for that matter any kind of diesel powered service extension.
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Re: Regional rail to Pottstown

Postby zebrasepta » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:48 pm

Backshophoss wrote:Very unlikely SEPTA will consider the BBD AL45DP, or for that matter any kind of diesel powered service extension.

I already know SEPTA won't get the ALP-45DPs and I'm pretty sure they won't use them even if someone else gathered up the money and bought them for them to run it.
I was just stating whoever said "hybrids" on the rail doesn't exist as there's couple although those engines don't use the catenary and instead use 3rd rail. (MNRR/LIRR has some DM30ACs (LIRR) P32AC-DMs (MNRR) I don't know if Amtrak has dual modes)
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