Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle Svc

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, gprimr1, Amtrak67 of America, Tadman

Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Postby Safetee » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:36 am

Well the good news about the Amtrak shuttle is that all the gamblers from Franklin County will finally have assured seating to and from the new casino in Springfield. Not clear who will come from Springfield to Greenfield but I'm sure we could do another study.
Safetee
 
Posts: 210
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:07 am

Re: Planned Springfield-Greenfield service

Postby Traingeek3629 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:40 pm

johnpbarlow wrote:More details on the 2019 extension of CTrail service to Greenfield MA:

Some time mid 2019, limited CTrail service (1 additional train in each direction?) using Amtrak equipment will be extended to Greenfield, MA for up to 3 years on a trial basis:

https://www.masslive.com/business-news/index.ssf/2018/06/expanded_north-south_rail_service_from_s.html

And apparently Pan Am Southern's Conn River freight service will require MaDOT to install more sidings along between Springfield and Greenfield:
But Pollack said the state will have to build bypass tracks so passenger trains can pass the Pan Am Railways freight traffic that already uses the Knowledge Corridor tracks.


According to MassLive, it is an extra roundtrip in the morning and evening. That means three daily round trips, which is lousy but it is still a step up from the current service. Projected ridership is 24,000, so daily ridership would be 66, which equates to either 16 or 33 passengers per train, depending on if they mean 24,000 riders going just inbound or both directions.

EDIT: My two cents on which shuttles to extend would be 471 and 417 south, and 490 and 494 on weekdays. On weekends 157/147, 467/497 going south and 450 and 140 going north.
TRAIN APPROACHING, PLEASE REMAIN BEHIND THE YELLOW LINE
Traingeek3629
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:00 am

Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Postby johnpbarlow » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:08 am

I don't mean to appear cynical but spending a $1M/year to attract 24,000 trips that fill less than half a coach per train seems like a low ridership bar. But the venture is positioned as a trial with no guarantees of its long term implementation. But 2018 is a Massachusetts gubernatorial election year...
johnpbarlow
 
Posts: 1832
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:50 pm

Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Postby Arlington » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:17 am

At $1m for a year it is cheaper and faster than most ridership studies--and real, not a forecast. And passengers get the "study budget" not a few consultants (much as I love 'em).

Even at $40/pax subsidy, it would be transit malpractice to NOT try a pilot this fast, cheap, and accurate.

That it will run 30 or 36 months means it will also capture the usual new service ridership ramp.

I rate this nimble, thrifty government at its best.
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn
Arlington
 
Posts: 3544
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:51 am
Location: Medford MA (was Arlington MA and Arlington VA)

Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Postby lordsigma12345 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:09 pm

Kilgore Trout wrote:My long-standing suspicion has been that the lack of ticketed Acela connections is due to the lack of business class on the shuttles. Amtrak may not want to give an Acela passenger a downgrade in service level from their premium service. At least that was my perception when I used to frequently ride to Hartford ~8 years ago.

Turns out it was simply an oversight. I sent comment emails to CTDOT and Amtrak. Amtrak customer relations passed it on to scheduling and operations and they looked into it and 451/2151 and 2172/412 connections have been added in.
lordsigma12345
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:05 pm

Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Postby Safetee » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:24 pm

Unfortunately, the rte 91/Knowledge Corridor has very little traffic that doesn't prefer to drive. Buses from Greenfield to Springfield have very sparse loadings at cheaper rates. I think they(Mass Dot) are trying to spice up train travel to Springfield at a time when the casino may/could be a draw especially with packages. Here again the area bus companies excel at casino offerings.

The real demand for Western Mass rail traffic is to get to Boston. Springfield is the favored gateway but there are many hurdles prior to making that multi train service happen. And, there is a ton of bus competition with easy access to the Mass Pike. Greenfield on the other hand has zero east bus service and could facilitate generating a good chunk of rail oriented traffic coming from Southern Vermont, Southern New Hampshire and Western Mass headed to Boston/North Station.
Safetee
 
Posts: 210
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:07 am

Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Postby Arlington » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:50 pm

When does work start on the I84 viaduct in Hartford?

answer: around 2021...just about when the piot ends. The obvious step then is to run the train as part of the mitigation for the big construction project
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn
Arlington
 
Posts: 3544
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:51 am
Location: Medford MA (was Arlington MA and Arlington VA)

Re: Planned Springfield-Greenfield service

Postby lordsigma12345 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:43 am

Traingeek3629 wrote:EDIT: My two cents on which shuttles to extend would be 471 and 417 south, and 490 and 494 on weekdays. On weekends 157/147, 467/497 going south and 450 and 140 going north.

I don't know about 157/147/140. Doesn't seem worth the effort to have to turn a longer train around up there. I'd think it'd be simpler for them to all be Shuttles.
lordsigma12345
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:05 pm

Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Postby njt/mnrrbuff » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:31 am

I wouldn't count on any NE Regionals being extended to Greenfield as there is either no place to wye them up there and if there is, they would probably have to go to a freight yard. The shuttles will most likely be the added Amtrak runs to Greenfield as they run push pull.

I don't know too much about the public buses running in the Knowledge Corridor but what I do know is the service is sparse at the best. An extension of the Amtrak 400 series shuttles will be a game changer for those people who want to live in the Knowledge Corridor region and might want to go to Springfield and beyond. It would be great to have a lot more options between Springfield and Boston. That will happen eventually, whether in the form of Amtrak or MBTA. I believe that there is a right of way that comes from Boston and passes through Greenfield-probably the same right of way that connects to MBTA's Fitchburg Line. When heading to Boston from Greenfield, I'm sure that there are people who will drive to Wachusett and take MBTA from there.

Remember that people who live in the Knowledge Corridor region who are commuting by train are probably going to anywhere between SPG and NHV. It's an extremely long commute to NYC. It's not that short of a commute to New Haven either. Boston is still a schlep away, especially when rail connections are extremely sparse.
njt/mnrrbuff
 
Posts: 2942
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:33 pm

Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Postby Traingeek3629 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:05 am

Yes, but the Shuttle options on weekend mornings are awful. Either it is one that would probably be too early up there, or one that would get in to NH and NYC too late.
TRAIN APPROACHING, PLEASE REMAIN BEHIND THE YELLOW LINE
Traingeek3629
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:00 am

Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Postby Safetee » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:50 am

The hound and Peter Pan run 3 buses daily in each direction from Greenfield train station to Springfield Union station with stops in between and connections to the two regional bus transit systems.
Safetee
 
Posts: 210
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:07 am

Re: Planned Springfield-Greenfield service

Postby asull85 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:06 am

I think MassDOT's plan was to extend 495 and 478 to Greenfield but it has probably changed a dozen times since I started typing.
User avatar
asull85
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:52 pm
Location: Island of Sodor

Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Postby DutchRailnut » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:36 am

the service to Greenfield will be by Amtrak , not by the CTrail trains and its operator.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer
User avatar
DutchRailnut
 
Posts: 21649
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: released from Stalag 13

Re: Planned Springfield-Greenfield service

Postby Traingeek3629 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:10 pm

478 is too late. It would arrive in Greenfield after midnight, which would be too late for families due to the late arrival and daily commuters as it leaves NY at around 8:00 PM and if 495 was the AM train, most people would be in Greenfield from 12 AM to 6 AM. That would be about 5.5 hours of sleep or less. 494 would be good for both families and daily commuters, as it leaves NY around 5:30 and would arrive in Greenfield around 10:00.
Last edited by GirlOnTheTrain on Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Nesting quotes give the mods migraines, stop.
TRAIN APPROACHING, PLEASE REMAIN BEHIND THE YELLOW LINE
Traingeek3629
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:00 am

Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Postby GirlOnTheTrain » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:03 am

You seriously think people are going to commute from north of Springfield to New York on a daily basis and use that as your logic to not extend certain shuttles? Leave that to the people who actually get paid to decide which shuttles are going to be extended...or by all means apply to Amtrak if you think you can do a better job. I'm sure they're dying for your input. [/sarcasm]
"I am no longer just a girl on the train, going back and forth without point or purpose."

Moderator: Amtrak, MTA Metro-North, MTA New York City Subway/PATH/NYC Area Light Rail
User avatar
GirlOnTheTrain
 
Posts: 467
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 7:19 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Amtrak

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests