SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby andrewjw » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:45 pm

mcgrath618 wrote:As I sit in 30th st waiting for my train, I wonder why they’ve installed kiosks past the turnstiles? Do I not understand how this works?

Honestly, I appreciate it. Get your next month or your reload while waiting for the train.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby mcgrath618 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:15 am

andrewjw wrote:
mcgrath618 wrote:As I sit in 30th st waiting for my train, I wonder why they’ve installed kiosks past the turnstiles? Do I not understand how this works?

Honestly, I appreciate it. Get your next month or your reload while waiting for the train.

That is a fair point. I don't know how much I'll be using regional rail though, now that I'm in college.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby jamesinclair » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:23 pm

ChesterValley wrote:I should also clarify, tokens are taken by the key machines to buy Quick Trip's but they are trying their hardest to eradicate them. The token machines still accept them on the validators for the Busses, Trolleys and Route 100. Frankly it's a matter of time before SEPTA rolls out new systems built without tokens.


In 2006, the MBTA phased out tokens.

You are still able to use them at the machines at the value they cost at the time (1.25).

There is no reason to phase them out this early
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby JeffK » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:18 am

jamesinclair wrote:
ChesterValley wrote:I should also clarify, tokens are taken by the key machines to buy Quick Trips but they are trying their hardest to eradicate them.
There is no reason to phase them out this early

I'm sure that the cynical calculus at 1234 is "The quicker we stop accepting tokens, the harder it will be to redeem them and we get more permanent float."
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby MACTRAXX » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:40 pm

JeffK wrote:
jamesinclair wrote:
ChesterValley wrote:I should also clarify, tokens are taken by the key machines to buy Quick Trips but they are trying their hardest to eradicate them.
There is no reason to phase them out this early

I'm sure that the cynical calculus at 1234 is "The quicker we stop accepting tokens, the harder it will be to redeem them and we get more permanent float."


Jeff and Everyone: In case anyone was unaware SEPTA still will sell tokens in bulk to social service
organizations that request them even though Key cards are being promoted for use. All of the fare
box equipment used on vehicles were simply modified to add the Key tap apparatus. SEPTA should
have a good idea about how many tokens remain in public circulation and by keeping track of this
number should be able to better determine when a deadline should be set for the end of token use.

A gradual process of elimination is the best way to end token use - other systems have used this
option successfully - SEPTA should go this route instead of a cold-turkey type "dead end" in which
many folks will be stuck with unusable - but redeemable - tokens that will need to be collected...
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby ExCon90 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:06 pm

The bulk sale of tokens to social-service organizations seems to be one more of those "oh, right ..." moments when something cropped up that SEPTA didn't think of; the tokens are handed out by organizations to individuals who are in immediate need of transportation, and they can't use a "fare instrument" that's tied to one individual. So, it's necessary to keep tokens in use--just for that purpose--longer than planned.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby MACTRAXX » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:47 pm

ChesterValley wrote:http://www.septa.org/key/index.html#fare

Effective October 1st:

Regional Rail: Zone 3 Early adopters rolling out October 1st. You cannot purchase a monthly parking permit and the key. They will be rolling out those mobile kiosks at select stations and dates between 6 and 10 am.

City Transit/NHSL(Route 100): Turnstiles going into effect at 19th, 22nd, Norristown and 69th street stations. Cash and tokens will not be accepted at gate.

Subway and El: Cash and Tokens will no longer be accepted, Key and single trip only

System wide: PA reduced Transit Fare ID card no longer accepted.


CV (and Everyone): First time I noticed this next round of fare changes - thanks for posting this...

1-Legacy Passes have been always available for riders that purchase parking permits. This is an
important monthly feature for stations such as Jenkintown in which permits routinely sell out.
These are the hangtag type that are attached to the rear view mirror inside parked vehicles...

2-Implementing fare collection at Norristown will be an interesting change - will there be a new
exit fare implemented there? Will entry become further restricted from the south RRD platform?

Regular NHSL riders knew early on about the installation of turnstiles at 69th Street which will
take the edge off of having to wait to board there implemented with the pay enter fare policy.
There may have even been a way to connect the drop-off platform from the MFSE into the new
NHSL paid area to create a new free interchange...

19th Street and 22nd Street on the subway/surface trunk line is going to be an interesting fare
collection challenge - in case anyone is unaware both of those two stations have never had any
restricted entry - all fares from these two stations are collected at the front door of LRV cars.

3-Cash and tokens will no longer be collected directly by the cashier upon entry to the paid area
in a rapid transit station. All cash and token fares will require the purchase of a Quick Trip Card
for entry. This may create added TVM lines at stations especially during high demand periods.

4-All other categories of PA State Reduced Fare Cards (such as Disabled) will require a SEPTA
Key along with this month's requirements that all Senior Citizens have a Senior Key Card to take
advantage of free rides on all SEPTA services operating within PA...

That is what looks like October's fare changes will be...MACTRAXX
Last edited by MACTRAXX on Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:50 pm

This just leaves TTC still using tokens (sold in minimum of 3).
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby JeffK » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:56 am

ExCon90 wrote:The bulk sale of tokens to social-service organizations seems to be one more of those "oh, right ..." moments when something cropped up that SEPTA didn't think of; the tokens are handed out by organizations to individuals who are in immediate need of transportation, and they can't use a "fare instrument" that's tied to one individual. So, it's necessary to keep tokens in use--just for that purpose--longer than planned.

My understanding is that they’re trying to come up with some form of single-use card that social-service angencies could buy in bulk. It would effectively be a QT but with fewer/no restrictions on when and where it can be used. Of course that still doesn’t address the no-transfer "gotcha", nor does it explain why the Key's planners didn’t simply implement open-use QTs in the first place. Just one more example of the blindered thinking that's led to so many of the Key's oversights and omissions.

FWIW, those "oops" moments also seem to be behind the decisions to eliminate zone fares on suburban transit routes and the $1 senior RRD fare. The Key has no way to charge an exit fare on buses or trolleys nor at intermediate NHSL stations. Senior Keys were implemented without a Wallet function, which precludes any kind of automatic collection of all those dollars.

I’m hoping to hear something from my local representatives re the requirement for seniors to have a Key in order to receive free or reduced-fare rides, esp. after mag-stripe licenses are discontinued. Senior fares are funded at the state level so at least on the surface it would seem SEPTA should honor forms of ID that’re available to all PA seniors, not just Philly-area residents.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby bikentransit » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:33 pm

What's the timetable for getting travel wallet working on the key thing?
Seems like key card is useless unless you have a transpass put on it.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby CNJGeep » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:12 pm

bikentransit wrote:What's the timetable for getting travel wallet working on the key thing?
Seems like key card is useless unless you have a transpass put on it.

Travel wallet is already active on the city side along with Transpasses. You can also get a Zone 4 and soon a Zone 3 weekly or monthly Trailpass. As for wallet on regional rail, the most concrete answer I've heard was "possibly next year."
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby dcipjr » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:35 pm

“Possibly” next year? There’s no way they’re not done the Key rollout by the end of 2019—right?
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby JeffK » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:18 pm

dcipjr wrote:“Possibly” next year? There’s no way they’re not done the Key rollout by the end of 2019—right?

The end of 2019 would be consistent with SEPTA's previously-announced completion dates - 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 .... :P :P :P :P

http://planphilly.com/articles/2015/02/25/delays-reported-on-the-septa-key-sometime-in-2015-for-most-lines-march-2016-for-regional-rail
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby MACTRAXX » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:07 pm

Jeff and Everyone:

Rode the Trenton Line on Friday 9/14. Noticed that card readers at many stations look to be in service...

Trenton should be an interesting situation depending on how fare collections are handled because of the large number of transferring occasional riders...

Currently there are no Key card readers placed there as of now...

As most also know the NJT machines sell the three types of SEPTA tickets that are used on the Trenton Line:
1-Intermediate Levittown to North Philadelphia inclusive $3.75
2-Center City Philadelphia Stations $9.25
3-Anywhere via CCP "Tunnel" $9.25 (This is NOT a typo - these two ticket types ARE the same price)

Since the majority of riders from TRE are not regulars there will have tobe a plan worked out just how to collect these fares. Will there be a type
of ticket be introduced to be used at Key readers meaning that NJT may be no longer able to sell SEPTA tickets without a Key function?
SEPTA may have to again place their own TVMs at TRE...

Key readers at TRE will have to be well marked "FOR SEPTA Regional Rail USE ONLY" so that those not affected (NJT riders) can ignore them...

Many of the busiest travel days of the year will be in the upcoming three months - with Thanksgiving the best example just over two months away...

More then likely any significant fare change will be months away at best so that problem spots such as TRE can be worked on for Key adaptation...

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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby MACTRAXX » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:56 pm

Everyone:

Add these mentions thanks to DVARP from the 9/15 meeting:

1-Those that have any remaining Convenience Passes should use them before October 1st - at that point they will only be valid on vehicles that directly collect fares...
With the fare collection change - and no more cashiers to punch rides on CVPs - they will no longer be valid at any rapid transit stations.

2-Subway Surface stations 18th and 22nd Street will be gated westbound only. Eastbound ridership is too limited to warrant turnstiles
at either one...

3-Those that use legacy Independence Passes at rapid transit stations may encounter these new problems:
Riders that have these passes will have to find the Customer Service Attendant (formerly Cashier) to get in the paid area at stations
and more importantly those with unused I Passes to be punched with the month and day may no longer be able to use them - what
riders may have to do is ride a vehicle or RRD train first for the I Pass to be validated...These are problems that do not exist under
the current transit station fare collection in which a cashier can easily punch and validate an I Pass...

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