SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby zebrasepta » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:44 am

bikentransit wrote:I noticed the card readers on the platforms are now active as well. So this will be a gradual implementation. It will give us a good idea of any crowding problems at the turnstiles, at least for boarding. Exiting could be a problem once that is activated because each rider will eventually have to swipe out, and there is a half-second delay before the reader releases the turnstile arm. That could be a problem when multiple trains drop off a few hundred riders at a time.

I think it'll be good if something happens, a lot of workers being late to work because of SEPTA's dumb gates and there'll be even less riders!
SEPTA: Making stupid decisions after another.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby JeffersonLeeEng » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:24 am

https://whyy.org/articles/baby-steps-to ... on-monday/

Baby steps toward SEPTA Key at Jefferson Station Monday
By Tom MacDonald June 18, 2018

"Beginning Monday, regional rail riders at SEPTA’s Jefferson Station in Philadelphia will have to pass through turnstiles to get to the platform. The change is in preparation for adding SEPTA Key, the electronic fare collection system, to regional rail trains. The service is still months away for train commuters."
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:49 pm

zebrasepta wrote:I think it'll be good if something happens, a lot of workers being late to work because of SEPTA's dumb gates and there'll be even less riders!
SEPTA: Making stupid decisions after another.
I can't think of a regional rail system with gate controls except some European systems (such as RER).
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby MACTRAXX » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:22 pm

R36 Combine Coach wrote:
zebrasepta wrote:I think it'll be good if something happens, a lot of workers being late to work because of SEPTA's dumb gates and there'll be even less riders!
SEPTA: Making stupid decisions after another.
I can't think of a regional rail system with gate controls except some European systems (such as RER).

...and two in Australia: Sydney Trains and Melbourne's Metro...MACTRAXX
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby tgolanos » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:57 am

MACTRAXX wrote:
R36 Combine Coach wrote:
zebrasepta wrote:I think it'll be good if something happens, a lot of workers being late to work because of SEPTA's dumb gates and there'll be even less riders!
SEPTA: Making stupid decisions after another.
I can't think of a regional rail system with gate controls except some European systems (such as RER).

...and two in Australia: Sydney Trains and Melbourne's Metro...MACTRAXX


And we've just moved to a full-body barrier type to stop the fare evaders from from jumping the old, lower ones. Many of our stations don't even have barriers, just individual card readers along the platforms. I haven't been to Melbourne in a few years, but I'm pretty sure they only have readers at some station, too.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby JimBoylan » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:26 am

Does Illinois Central's Chicago commuter rail system still use magnetic stripe tickets and fare gates?
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby JeffK » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:16 am

DC Metro has exit gates that require you to scan your card so the appropriate fare can be from your card. It isn't traditional regional rail but effectively fills that niche for much of DC's railroad ecology that's not served by VRE and MARC.

By contrast, Berlin has all three major modes and (at least as far as my last visit) is completely POP. Get on, get off, no barriers either direction. If you try to cheat you'd better not hear the dreaded "Fahrscheine, bitte!" from one of their roving inspectors :-D
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby MACTRAXX » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:23 am

JB: Metra Electric eliminated the use of turnstiles back in November 2003. The one remnant that
the Metra Electric routes still have are the TVMs which were retrofitted and are still in use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metra_Electric_District
https://www.chicagorailfan.com/farearcs.html
The Wikipedia page shows only one of the reasons for the elimination of turnstiles - the CR fare
page explains better how turnstiles ended up being phased out.

JK: Metro in Washington has used distance based fares under the now-replaced Farecard system
since 1977. Yes-some long Metro routes - the Red Line to Shady Grove one of the best examples
- have the characteristics of a regional rail line more then a central city subway route.

With the turnstile testing at Jefferson Station it will be interesting to see what the findings will be.
This could be a way to convince SEPTA that turnstiles at the Center City stations are not going to
be the answer and may create more problems then they were designed to solve...MACTRAXX
Last edited by MACTRAXX on Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby dcipjr » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:20 pm

Yeah, but what are the odds that SEPTA would reverse course and rip out the turnstiles? See snowball, chance, hell.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby JeffK » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:29 pm

MACTRAXX wrote:Yes-some long Metro routes - the Red Line to Shady Grove one of the best examples - have the characteristics of a regional rail line more than [then] a central city subway route.

That's in fact the line I was thinking about. I use it a lot when visiting relatives who live near it; the outlying stations in particular could easily be seen as regional rail in character. It will also be interesting to see how the newest extensions like the Silver Line evolve over time.

... testing at Jefferson Station ... could be a way to convince SEPTA that turnstiles at the Center City stations are not going to be the answer and may create more problems than [then] they were designed to solve...MACTRAXX

You're more optimistic than I am, haha! Given the extent to which SEPTA's bulled ahead on so many aspects of the Key without proactively addressing known negatives, my cynical self thinks this one will also be hit over the head until it "works". Over the years I spent too much time on too many projects that fell victim to the sunk-cost fallacy, and that was in IT departments that were otherwise mostly well-run. SEPTA's track record* is far worse than any of those firms. I'm fully expecting to hear 1234 claim that they've already invested X dollars and Y years which would all be wasted by a do-over and, and, and ...

* Lame pun intended (as always!)
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SEPTA Key Early Adoption for Regional Rall Zone 4 starts Aug

Postby JeffersonLeeEng » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:29 am

http://www.septa.org/key/updates/rail-e ... opter.html

SEPTA Key launching on Regional Rail
Wednesday, August 1, 2018 for select Zone 4 stations

Zone 4 TrailPass Customers who travel from one of the 19 stations listed below are invited to join the Future of Fare Payment.

ZONE 4 EARLY ADOPTERS STATIONS

Lansdale/Doylestown Line
Chalfont
Colmar
Delaware Valley University
Doylestown
Fortuna
Lansdale
Link Belt
New Britain
North Wales
Pennbrook
9th Street

Paoli/Thorndale Line
Downingtown
Malvern
Thorndale
Whitford

Trenton Line
Bristol

West Trenton Line
Langhorne
Woodbourne
Yardley
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby R3 Passenger » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:30 am

Early Adoption Begins for Select Zone 4 Stations on August 1

Zone 4 TrailPass Customers who travel from one of the 19 stations listed below are invited to join the Future of Fare Payment.

ZONE 4 EARLY ADOPTERS STATIONS

Lansdale/Doylestown Line
Chalfont
Colmar
Delaware Valley University
Doylestown
Fortuna
Lansdale
Link Belt
New Britain
North Wales
Pennbrook
9th Street

Paoli/Thorndale Line
Downingtown
Malvern
Thorndale
Whitford

Trenton Line
Bristol

West Trenton Line
Langhorne
Woodbourne
Yardley


It seems that it is mostly focused on the Doylestown Branch. Although, that branch does have a larger share of Zone 4 stations than the rest of Regional Rail.
Lines Frequented: SEPTA Trenton Line, West Trenton Line, Warminster Line; NJT Northeast Corridor and North Jersey Coast Line; Amtrak Northeast Corridor (PHL-NYP).
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby MACTRAXX » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:10 pm

Everyone:

Interesting news about the first RRD Early Adapter program for the Septa Key...

Most Zone 4 PA stations are included in this program except Levittown, Paoli and Exton.
The four Delaware Zone 4 stations: Claymont, Wilmington, Churchmans Crossing and Newark
are another noticeable exception to this Early Adapter program...

These are the stations that use the legacy "Anywhere" weekly and monthly passes along with the
two in Zone NJ: Trenton and West Trenton.

Testing the Key on a zone implementation basis does make sense - to work on the smaller zones
first. I can see Zone 2 or 1 next and Zone 3 last - the largest RRD zone. I recall that Zone 3 is the
most commonly used pass on RRD and account for about half of all Trailpasses sold.

This test will give Zone 4 commuters and SEPTA an idea how the Key will work for the RRD.

Using the Key will introduce ride "caps" to the RRD for the first time and the need to use the
tap readers at outlying stations and the turnstiles at Center City stations. It will remain to be
seen how these changes will affect commuters as compared to the use of the legacy passes.

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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby ChesterValley » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:06 pm

The Inquirer had an article on it http://www.philly.com/philly/business/transportation/septa-key-card-regional-rail-monthly-passes-20180628.html
The Key Card program for Regional Rail will eventually expand to include Zones 1, 2, and 3, and allow for the purchase of Weekly TrailPasses. Until then, all existing fare instruments, including magnetic stripe passes and paper tickets, will remain available for purchase, SEPTA said.

Key turnstiles and ADA gates, already in operation at Jefferson Station, will be activated at University City on July 2, Temple University on July 9, Suburban Station on July 16, and 30th Street Station by the end of July, the agency said.

The turnstiles will accommodate tap-and-go travel with the SEPTA Key Card, and customers with legacy TrailPasses can swipe through the turnstiles. Passengers with Key Card passes will have to tap a platform validator at their home station before boarding and on their return. Conductors also will have handheld devices to validate the passes, should you fail to tap in at the station.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby amtrakhogger » Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:14 pm

ChesterValley wrote:The Inquirer had an article on it http://www.philly.com/philly/business/transportation/septa-key-card-regional-rail-monthly-passes-20180628.html
The Key Card program for Regional Rail will eventually expand to include Zones 1, 2, and 3, and allow for the purchase of Weekly TrailPasses. Until then, all existing fare instruments, including magnetic stripe passes and paper tickets, will remain available for purchase, SEPTA said.

Key turnstiles and ADA gates, already in operation at Jefferson Station, will be activated at University City on July 2, Temple University on July 9, Suburban Station on July 16, and 30th Street Station by the end of July, the agency said.

The turnstiles will accommodate tap-and-go travel with the SEPTA Key Card, and customers with legacy TrailPasses can swipe through the turnstiles. Passengers with Key Card passes will have to tap a platform validator at their home station before boarding and on their return. Conductors also will have handheld devices to validate the passes, should you fail to tap in at the station.


Septa (so it seems,) is accomplishing something they set out to do around 1983. That is to "transitize" the Railroad Division by way of fare gates and/or turnstiles.
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