Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

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Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

Postby jscola30 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:38 am

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/27 ... etail.html

I wonder if trains will still be able to pass through
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby BostonUrbEx » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:58 am

As I said on ArchBoston, this is a complete waste of money and/or time.

Assembly Sq will be built from scratch in a projected 3 years with only night/weekend shutdowns. Government Center will take 3 years of COMPLETE closure for a renovation.

I'd like to throw our there that I am 100% confident that the "modern" headhouse -- which will undoubtedly cost a great deal of money -- will look more like the Porter "outhouse" (covered in pigeon gifts and other grime!) in no time.

Considering this station is pivotal in those transferring between the Red and Blue lines, this is ridiculous. Shall we just cram more people into the Orange Line? Why don't they follow through on the functional Red-Blue connector rather than the Government Center aesthetics?
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby jscola30 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:07 am

I know part of it has to do with the elevators making it ADA
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby Jersey_Mike » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:37 am

I guess that's one way to have a Government Center Shutdown.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby FP10 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:26 pm

Essential aspects of a subway station to the average commuter:
-Enough platform space to stand on to wait for the train.
-Operable turnstyles and FVMs
-Multiple ADA accessible points of egress
-Easy transfer between different lines/modes

Essential aspects of a subway station to the MBTA:
-Single point of access covered with a space, money, and maintenance wasting headhouse designed in currently fashionable, soon to be extremly dated architectural style.
-Labyranth platforms requiring excessive walking to transfer between lines and points of egress
-Hard to clean and trendy (the opposite of timeless white tile) maintain station finishes (I'm thinking you, quickly rusting perforated metal ceiling panels and multi-colored Kenmore tiles)

All a "headhouse" needs to be a a hole in the ground through which passengers access a platform, on which they get on a train. 500 feet away State Street is the perfect example of this, but yet for some reason the T has to reinvent the wheel.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby Disney Guy » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:09 pm

Essential aspects of a subway station to the BERy (?)
* Entrances all up and down the street, for example (Washington St.) Lagrange, Boylston/Essex, Chickering, Temple, Summer/Winter, Frankln, Milk, State, Couple' more examples: Kendall, Arlington, Hynes, and even Gov't Ctr. had two entrances each.
* Fit in the available space (note particularly State St. north and southbound on the Orange Line.

As far as closing down Gov't Ctr. completely, you gotta be kiddin'.
On the other hand, the closure would let us all visualize what the station currently is to someone in a wheelchair. The story was told that early in the life of the Washington DC metro, one station that was otherwise finished was not opened an trains just cruised by it until the elevators were installed a little later.
(To the theater stage manager) Quit twiddling the knob and flickering the lights while the audience is entering and being seated. (To the subway motorman) Quit twiddling the knob and dinging the doors while passengers are getting off and others are waiting to board.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby FP10 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:49 pm

Disney Guy wrote:Essential aspects of a subway station to the BERy (?)
* Entrances all up and down the street, for example (Washington St.) Lagrange, Boylston/Essex, Chickering, Temple, Summer/Winter, Frankln, Milk, State, Couple' more examples: Kendall, Arlington, Hynes, and even Gov't Ctr. had two entrances each.
* Fit in the available space (note particularly State St. north and southbound on the Orange Line.


Hynes (as built) is exactly what I was thinking as for what a redesign should be based on. Originally it had six entrances spread over three headhouses. The trolley station upstairs had two entrances of its own, plus stairs going down into the lobby. The second headhouse (the one still used) had the main entrance, the newbury st exit, and the secondary entrance across mass ave where the bus shelter is now. Then of course there is the infamous third headhouse with direct access to the subway platforms, open only for marathon Monday even though everyone and their mother in the area wants it reopened permanently. To top it all off they sold off all the space above they feasibly could to be built on, making some money and giving the space a use. And I don't have the documentation here, but I bet it didn't take three years!

Why doesnt the T understand how this is done? They could probably get the station done in less time, for FREE if they sold the air rights above the station and made a contract of the sale that the station is rebuilt before anything rises above ground. That area would be prime for a 20 or so story tower, and it would start to reestablish Cornhill Street while getting rid of one of the most useless corners of that useless plaza.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby 3rdrail » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:58 pm

The answer to your question is that this is a "wait and see" situation, where a rush to action might result in doing any work over again in a few years. It may be a much larger picture than just a re-hab. The mayor has repeatedly wanted to move City Hall to Roxbury Crossing (in the Police Headquarters vicinity off Tremont). When that happens, the whole City Hall Plaza thing will revert back to the "West End" again. There are numerous proposals being considered regarding what to do with this valuable land space, as we speak. I have heard a combination of housing, a park, and commercial real estate. Whatever is ultimately done will reflect on the station itself, as entrances/exits, etc. may have to change. One thing is for sure that if it does happen is that it won't be "Government Center" any more. That might be "Ruggles'" new name.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby Teamdriver » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:58 pm

3rdrail wrote:The answer to your question is that this is a "wait and see" situation, where a rush to action might result in doing any work over again in a few years. It may be a much larger picture than just a re-hab. The mayor has repeatedly wanted to move City Hall to Roxbury Crossing (in the Police Headquarters vicinity off Tremont). When that happens, the whole City Hall Plaza thing will revert back to the "West End" again. There are numerous proposals being considered regarding what to do with this valuable land space, as we speak. I have heard a combination of housing, a park, and commercial real estate. Whatever is ultimately done will reflect on the station itself, as entrances/exits, etc. may have to change. One thing is for sure that if it does happen is that it won't be "Government Center" any more. That might be "Ruggles'" new name.

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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby 3rdrail » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:57 pm

I want to go to the "New" Old Howard and then get a "3rdrail" tatoo. I think that I have about as much chance as that happening, as for the T to bring back Center-Entrances. I can see the stores and offices lining up now to get their space in Scollay Square opposite Paul Revere Park !
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby dieciduej » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:32 pm

3rdrail wrote:I want to go to the "New" Old Howard and then get a "3rdrail" tatoo. I think that I have about as much chance as that happening, as for the T to bring back Center-Entrances. I can see the stores and offices lining up now to get their space in Scollay Square opposite Paul Revere Park !


While you get your tat I will be catching Ann Corio!

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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby 3rdrail » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:40 pm

I'm with you ! Wouldn't it be great if they called it Corio Park ??!! The bronze statue would be pissah !!! Now there's an idea !!!
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby danib62 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:50 pm

One positive effect of the 3 year GC shutdown would be that Bowdoin would possibly become a full time station for the first time in who knows how long (ever?). I think after having it open full time for 3 years it would be hard to bump it back down to part time.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby savebowdoin » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:07 pm

danib62 wrote:One positive effect of the 3 year GC shutdown would be that Bowdoin would possibly become a full time station for the first time in who knows how long (ever?). I think after having it open full time for 3 years it would be hard to bump it back down to part time.


This would be great for Bowdoin during the shut down, but after GC reopens I could then see them being required to either make Bowdoin ADA compliant (which wouldn't happen after the presumably super expensive reconstruction of GC) or be forced to shutter it completely. It could end up being Bowdoin's "going out in a blaze of glory" moment. We'll have to see how this all shakes out.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby 3rdrail » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:13 pm

danib62 wrote:One positive effect of the 3 year GC shutdown would be that Bowdoin would possibly become a full time station for the first time in who knows how long (ever?). I think after having it open full time for 3 years it would be hard to bump it back down to part time.


I'll go a step further than both of you and suggest that with the West End re-emerging (it's going to happen- it's just a matter of time), that not only will Bowdoin be full-time, but a full-time through station for the Blue Line on their way to Charles. I don't like to throw out wide speculation, but if these rumors of Bowdoin's demise are true, I'll eat my cigar. There are still West Enders that resented being jettisoned out of their neighborhood. The city will have to make it right, and they're going to have to try to make it better than before- better living, stores, offices,...and public transportation.
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