01700 UTDC Midlife Rebuild

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Re: 01700 UTDC Midlife Rebuild

Postby Jersey_Mike » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:34 pm

It would just be a rehab of the existing motor controllers, as they are used in MU service with the older 01500/01600 series cars, which are almost the same as the 01700s


SEPTA installed a new backwards compatible IGBT based controller from Vossloh replacing the older GE supplied cam controller system. Retrofitting the entire fleet cost 11 million and the DC motors did not have to be changed. The only side effect was a buzzing noise caused by the chopped current flowing through the dynamic brake grids.
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Re: 01700 UTDC Midlife Rebuild

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:30 pm

mbta1051dan wrote:
Robert Paniagua wrote:And they are cerianly not gonna get the same treatment as WMATA's 2000 & 3000-series which means conversion from DC to AC Propulsion motors whic would have meant the 01700s would then be running as MUs with the 01800s if the 01700s were rebuilt like that, but of course the MBTA is far different than the Washington Metro.


Don't forget, that on the green line, DC propulsion Type 7s always trainline with AC Type 8s.


Apples/oranges. Trolleys are much simpler and easier to MU than married-pair heavy rail cars. You've got at most 3 cars to trainline, as opposed to double that (much more inertia to overcome). You can put up with herky-jerky starts/stops and cars that are only 99% in sync because of the fewer cars in consist, and fact that they're either much smaller/lighter (PCC's) or have much more carbody flex because of articulation. There's no ATO (granted there's nothing preventing ATO installation on the Green Line, but you wouldn't see retrofitted Type 7's in mixed consists running on cab signals with their not-quite-perfect sync to the newer cars. And LRV's are rated for lower speeds, and usually traverse much lower speed track because of street/reservation running and density of stop signals. Granted the T's ATO makes the average heavy-rail consist slower on straightaways than some leadfoot D-line operators, but if the track quality and signals properly supported it and the cars were maintained at the shop to that standard you could easily do a smooth 60-70 MPH in an average MBTA-order heavy rail car. On an LRV the swaying starts getting pretty uncomfortable even on straight track once you hit 50 MPH because the roof-mount hardware makes them very top-heavy, and it probably starts getting unsafe if you start pushing the speed envelope too much beyond that.
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Re: 01700 UTDC Midlife Rebuild

Postby Finch » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:00 pm

The No. 2 Car cam controllers are being thoroughly overhauled, that's all that's happening with propulsion (besides freshly-rebuilt traction motors).
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Re: 01700 UTDC Midlife Rebuild

Postby Robert Paniagua » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:01 am

Oh they are going to replace them with controllers as the 01800s?
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Re: 01700 UTDC Midlife Rebuild

Postby Finch » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:20 pm

Robert Paniagua wrote:Oh they are going to replace them with controllers as the 01800s?

You mean put A/C prop controllers on the cars? No, that's not what I meant, my apologies if I was unclear. The 1700s are keeping their original electro-pneumatic propulsion units. They are simply being overhauled. They are getting reconditioned to get them back to OEM parameters. Lots of new wiring, new contactors and things like that if required, new hardware, repair and paint the cases, various things like that. The idea is for them to perform like new.
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Re: 01700 UTDC Midlife Rebuild

Postby diburning » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:11 pm

Has this begun yet?

I saw 01706-01707 this morning in what appeared to be fresh exterior paint and a shiny squeaky clean interior.

EDIT: Checked NETrainsit. 01706-01707 is indeed the first pair out of the mid-life overhaul.
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Re: 01700 UTDC Midlife Rebuild

Postby sery2831 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:58 pm

Saw them yesterday go by me. They looked sharp from the outside!
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Re: 01700 UTDC Midlife Rebuild

Postby jmac42887 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:56 am

I rode on them on Tuesday and they came out really great. The lighting to me is the biggest improvement. The only thing that is still wasn't working right was the PA System, it wasn't loud enough. The guard was in 01706 so it was really surprising to me that the PA system didn't work well.
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Re: 01700 UTDC Midlife Rebuild

Postby Robert Paniagua » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:07 am

It's because these cars only received a minor to moderate overhaul. Not like Washington Metrorails' Breda 2000 & 3000-series which got an even better overhaul inside and out, since they were outsourced to Alstom of Hornell NY, which the MBTA should have done to the 01700s. Rather then rebuild them in-house, they should be rebuilt off-site.
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Re: 01700 UTDC Midlife Rebuild

Postby mbta1051dan » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:00 pm

I rode in 01706 yesterday, the ride seemed so smooth which felt odd in the older reddys. Probably new wheels..
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Re: 01700 UTDC Midlife Rebuild

Postby StevieC48 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:00 pm

Robert the T dosent have to luxury of picking and choosing who to send the cars to for overhauling or in house. The T has to go with the cheapest way andy besides what is wrong with the T's inhouse overhaul programs. They did graat on the rehab on the PCC's at the Hts later moved to Riverside and the rebuild before that. The 1400's at Cabot. Component shop at Everett does a great job on refurbishing components. Also if you did out sourse you take all those jobs form the fine prople of Mass. ;)
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Re: 01700 UTDC Midlife Rebuild

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:58 pm

StevieC48 wrote:Robert the T dosent have to luxury of picking and choosing who to send the cars to for overhauling or in house. The T has to go with the cheapest way andy besides what is wrong with the T's inhouse overhaul programs. They did great on the rehab on the PCC's at the Hts later moved to Riverside and the rebuild before that. The 1400's at Cabot. Component shop at Everett does a great job on refurbishing components. Also if you did out sourse you take all those jobs form the fine prople of Mass. ;)

In-house overhaul programs can be superb or dismal. The former shows in the CTA 2400s at Skokie and the IRT Main Line R33s at 207 Street. But stuff like the NYCT's Coney Island R42s and the World's Fair R36s in 1985 (some which had to be rebuilt twice) ended up with weak, flawed results.
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Re: 01700 UTDC Midlife Rebuild

Postby Robert Paniagua » Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:02 pm

StevieC48 wrote:Robert the T dosent have to luxury of picking and choosing who to send the cars to for overhauling or in house. The T has to go with the cheapest way andy besides what is wrong with the T's inhouse overhaul programs. They did graat on the rehab on the PCC's at the Hts later moved to Riverside and the rebuild before that. The 1400's at Cabot. Component shop at Everett does a great job on refurbishing components. Also if you did out sourse you take all those jobs form the fine prople of Mass. ;)


True, and some inhouse rebuilds can come out in great condition while others not, but Ive been monitoring the progresss of the #2 Red Line Cars as I take the Red Line everyday and some have been rebuilt while others are still in their original 1986 condition. Ill let everyone know which ones are rebuilt and which ones are classic
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Re: 01700 UTDC Midlife Rebuild

Postby RailBus63 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:34 pm

StevieC48 wrote:Robert the T dosent have to luxury of picking and choosing who to send the cars to for overhauling or in house. The T has to go with the cheapest way


Inhouse rebuilding programs are not automatically less expsensive than programs that are contracted out.

andy besides what is wrong with the T's inhouse overhaul programs. They did graat on the rehab on the PCC's at the Hts later moved to Riverside and the rebuild before that. The 1400's at Cabot.


The original PCC rebuild program and the 01400 rebuild program both fell years behind schedule. The PCC program ended up with only 34 of the planned 50 cars being finished and the 01400 program ended up being outsourced to get it finished after over six years at Cabot.

Also if you did out sourse you take all those jobs form the fine prople of Mass. ;)


The outsourced 01400, 01500 and 01600 programs took place in South Boston.
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Re: 01700 UTDC Midlife Rebuild

Postby ck4049 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:21 pm

Today I rode on 01707 and it does not look too much different from all the other unoverhauled cars. The lighting has been slightly improved(thats the only thing different about the interior, otherwise it looks exactly the same as the unoverhauled cars.) and the cars look squealy clean on the outside, those appear to be thonly two noticeable changes to the carbody. They have either new or overhauled trucks. They really didnt do too much to them from what I saw.
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