Trolley Running - Well, Sort of...(Mattapan High Speed Line)

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Re: Trolley Running - Well, Sort of...(Mattapan High Speed Line)

Postby Gerry6309 » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:00 am

Ron Newman wrote:Why, are they doing some sort of construction today?

Snow and PCCs don't go well together. Motor failures are very expensive. Common sense says bus the line until the snow is cleared.
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The next stop is Washington. Change for Forest Hills Trains on the Winter St. Platform, and Everett Trains on the Summer St. Platform. This is an Ashmont train, change for Braintree at Columbia.
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Re: Trolley Running - Well, Sort of...(Mattapan High Speed Line)

Postby Ron Newman » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:33 pm

It wasn't that long ago when the MBTA or MTA had nothing but PCCs, and there was plenty of snow back then.
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Re: Trolley Running - Well, Sort of...(Mattapan High Speed Line)

Postby Gerry6309 » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:49 pm

Ron Newman wrote:It wasn't that long ago when the MBTA or MTA had nothing but PCCs, and there was plenty of snow back then.

Back then they had nine Type 3 plows, and even with those the PCCs used to drop like flies in a snow storm. In the mid 1970s. the entire Green Line used to succumb to a 6 inch fall. 10 to 20 PCCs would survive out of over 200 in the fleet. Single cars on long headways were the rule as the shop crews swapped trucks and motors as needed to get more cars on the street. Resistance failures were also common, and easily fixed on Westinghouse cars. GEs took longer in some cases. After the motors in stock were used up, the carhouses would have to wait for rewinds from Everett. Those took time and if another storm hit...

BTW, no alert as of 12:30 PM today.
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The next stop is Washington. Change for Forest Hills Trains on the Winter St. Platform, and Everett Trains on the Summer St. Platform. This is an Ashmont train, change for Braintree at Columbia.
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Re: Trolley Running - Well, Sort of...(Mattapan High Speed Line)

Postby Disney Guy » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:53 pm

If PCC's dropped like flies in a snowstorm, how did transit systems operate back in the 1940's? Or did they operate?

Or was the problem only after electric baseboard heating put in to replace the cabin heat supplied by the motors and the disconnected motor ventilation ducts now open to the underside of the car collected snow and shorted out the motors?
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Re: Trolley Running - Well, Sort of...(Mattapan High Speed Line)

Postby MBTA3247 » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:48 pm

Gerry6309 wrote:
Ron Newman wrote:Why, are they doing some sort of construction today?

Snow and PCCs don't go well together. Motor failures are very expensive. Common sense says bus the line until the snow is cleared.

Did they forget to run the cars all night long to keep the snow clear?
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Re: Trolley Running - Well, Sort of...(Mattapan High Speed Line)

Postby Gerry6309 » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:49 pm

There are two methods used to ventilate PCC motors. GE 1198 and Westinghouse 1432D motors have an internal fan which drew air from an intake at the end of the bolster. GE 1220 and 1243 motors and Westinghouse 1432 HE, HF and J motors use the airstream from the MG blower as a ventilation source. Neither type discharged air into the heating system. Both could draw in fine snow which could enter the windings BUT overloading due to wheel spinning was a more likely cause of such failures in these conditions. This could result in the moisture in the motors becoming vaporized rapidly, with disasterous results. Toronto may have revised the motor vent intake to use preheated air from the resistor compartment instead of a direct intake.

The heating system took air ventilating the resistors and blew that into the heating ducts or to the outside world via dampers. Auxiliary heaters have always been located in the ducts on Boston cars to augment the resistor's discharge. The rebuilds added small fans blowing air from the interior into the ducts, replacing the air from the resistor compartments. This system is still in use on the Mattapan cars but has been augmented by a heating element in the rooftop HVAC unit.

Ventilation and heating has been a problem with PCC cars from day zero, and there were several stages of redesign implemented over the years. As the ducts rotted out in later years the system became even less effective.
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The next stop is Washington. Change for Forest Hills Trains on the Winter St. Platform, and Everett Trains on the Summer St. Platform. This is an Ashmont train, change for Braintree at Columbia.
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Re: Trolley Running - Well, Sort of...(Mattapan High Speed Line)

Postby Gerry6309 » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:54 pm

MBTA3247 wrote:
Gerry6309 wrote:
Ron Newman wrote:Why, are they doing some sort of construction today?

Snow and PCCs don't go well together. Motor failures are very expensive. Common sense says bus the line until the snow is cleared.

Did they forget to run the cars all night long to keep the snow clear?

MBTA policy is to bus the line rather than risk excessive damage to the motors from running in the snow. The quantities of snow forecast were more than the cars could take.
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The next stop is Washington. Change for Forest Hills Trains on the Winter St. Platform, and Everett Trains on the Summer St. Platform. This is an Ashmont train, change for Braintree at Columbia.
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Re: Trolley Running - Well, Sort of...(Mattapan High Speed Line)

Postby Gerry6309 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:39 pm

I was down to Mattapan today, rode 3238 down and 3234 back. 3238 was exhibiting an intermittent low speed plug. There was platform work in progress at Central Av. 3260 is coming along nicely, 3254 held for parts. Saw a man with a grease bucket at Ashmont Loop, augmenting the solar powered greaser.

Changes seem to be approaching at Ashmont, as a worker appeared to be moving the six-car guard's markers.
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The next stop is Washington. Change for Forest Hills Trains on the Winter St. Platform, and Everett Trains on the Summer St. Platform. This is an Ashmont train, change for Braintree at Columbia.
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Re: Trolley Running - Well, Sort of...(Mattapan High Speed Line)

Postby 3rdrail » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:33 pm

Gerry6309 wrote: Saw a man with a grease bucket at Ashmont Loop, augmenting the solar powered greaser.



Hahahaha!!! The solar powered greaser gets out-done by a guy with a grease bucket ! hahaha!!!
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Re: Trolley Running - Well, Sort of...(Mattapan High Speed Line)

Postby MBTA3247 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:34 pm

Gerry6309 wrote:There was platform work in progress at Central Av.

Actually, it's not platform work they're doing per se, it's tie replacement. Of course, that requires ripping up some of the pavement so they can get to the ties.
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Re: Trolley Running - Well, Sort of...(Mattapan High Speed Line)

Postby diburning » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:12 pm

So, are they replacing the ties?
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Re: Trolley Running - Well, Sort of...(Mattapan High Speed Line)

Postby MBTA3247 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:05 pm

Just a few of them. Dunno why they didn't replace them while the line was shutdown. The work was causing some backups on the outbound track this afternoon.
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Re: Subway Delay Reports and Discussion

Postby djimpact1 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:42 am

Buses are shuttling the entire Mattapan-Ashmont line, due to an out-of-service trolley colliding with an in-service one near Cedar Grove. One of the two involved PCCs is 3048. At the time of this post, both trolleys were driven away. Pictures courtesy of WBZ/WCVB/NECN.
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Re: Subway Delay Reports and Discussion

Postby sery2831 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:59 am

Thanks for the pictures.

3238 was struck by 3087 for the record.
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Re: Subway Delay Reports and Discussion

Postby typesix » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:00 am

djimpact1 wrote:Buses are shuttling the entire Mattapan-Ashmont line, due to an out-of-service trolley colliding with an in-service one near Cedar Grove. One of the two involved PCCs is 3048. At the time of this post, both trolleys were driven away. Pictures courtesy of WBZ/WCVB/NECN.


3048 has been long gone and wouldn't have been a candidate for the original rebuild program anyway.
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