MBB Coaches

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: CRail, sery2831

railfan101

MBB Coaches

Post by railfan101 » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:00 pm

Does anyone know why the T decided to purchase the fleet of MBB cars when they were also getting all new Bombardier cars. They were both introduced into service at roughly the same time frame(87-90). I would have thought the T would have wanted to keep the fleet as uniform as possible just as they tried to do with their locomotives.

Also are there any US transit authorities that are operating MBB coaches?
Thanks in advance

CRail
Posts: 2343
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 8:27 am
Location: Eastie
Contact:

Post by CRail » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:26 am

Potty training became very popular in the mid to late 80's. People were so excited about the use of toilets they wanted them on trains too.
Moderator: Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority
Avatar:3679A (since wrecked)/3623B (now in service as 3636B).

railfan101

Post by railfan101 » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:05 am

This was my thought too originally. I then remembered that the original Pullman/Bomb cab cars (1300's) all had bathrooms as did some of RDC's. I have also seen newer Bomb coaches with bathrooms running on Metro North. If getting restroom equiped Bomb coaches was an option I currious as to why they went with MBB.

User avatar
Gerry6309
Posts: 1484
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:46 pm
Location: Boston

Post by Gerry6309 » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:47 am

The bidding process is probably a factor here. The MBTA is required to solicit bids and give the order t the lowest bidder meeting the specs. If noone meets the specs, then negotiations ensue or the order is rebid. If I recall correctly MBB was the low bidder on one group of cars (with restrooms) and Bonbadier was low bidder on the following order (without such facilities). MBB used its own design, while Bombadier used the same design as the earlier Pullman order.
Gerry. STM/BSRA

The next stop is Washington. Change for Forest Hills Trains on the Winter St. Platform, and Everett Trains on the Summer St. Platform. This is an Ashmont train, change for Braintree at Columbia.

theinsider
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:34 am

Post by theinsider » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:47 am

They were probably the lowest bidder.

jbvb
Posts: 1327
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:50 pm
Location: Rockingham Co., NH
Contact:

Post by jbvb » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:55 am

The MBB cars were built with 2-2 walk-over seating, which made them much more comfortable on longer runs (I rode an MVRS excursion to Portland circa 1982 which was all MBB cars). Some also had public phones at one end (enclosure still visible). This was a hangover from the Dukakis-era "lets serve the Cape etc." philosophy, before the MBTA hunkered down to haul cattle - er, commuters with one stinking toilet and no water for 500 people, 50 of whom are standing...

Robert Paniagua
Posts: 4428
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:11 am
Location: Weymouth, MA 02188
Contact:

Post by Robert Paniagua » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:31 pm

Maybe Budd should have gotten the contract for all those cars, 350-389, all 6/1600s and 500/1500s and that would make things simpler.
~Robert Paniagua
Moderator: WMATA :: General Railroad Operations

StevieC48
Posts: 1635
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:43 pm
Location: Taunton, MA
Contact:

Post by StevieC48 » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:31 pm

Gerry6309 wrote: MBB used its own design, while Bombadier used the same design as the earlier Pullman order.


Don't forget Gerry Pullman was bought by Bombadier so they had the right to all Pullmans designs. :wink:
Farewell old friend thanks for the memories.
#4 EBT cars Hawker Siddley 1978-2009

Instructor/Inspector SERY
Member 25 years proud

astrosa

Post by astrosa » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:09 pm

jbvb wrote:(I rode an MVRS excursion to Portland circa 1982 which was all MBB cars)


The MBB cars were built in 1987...did you mean 1992?

railfan101

Post by railfan101 » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:52 pm

jbvb wrote:The MBB cars were built with 2-2 walk-over seating, which made them much more comfortable on longer runs (I rode an MVRS excursion to Portland circa 1982 which was all MBB cars). Some also had public phones at one end (enclosure still visible). This was a hangover from the Dukakis-era "lets serve the Cape etc." philosophy, before the MBTA hunkered down to haul cattle - er, commuters with one stinking toilet and no water for 500 people, 50 of whom are standing...


Corect me if I wrong but the original Pullman cars of the late 70's were configured almost the same as the German cars

sery2831
Posts: 5138
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:15 pm
Location: Manchester, NH

Post by sery2831 » Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:26 pm

I don't believe they had different seating, I am sure they had the 2x3 seating.
Moderator: MBTA Rail Operations

Veristek
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:10 pm

Post by Veristek » Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:41 pm

sery2831 wrote:I don't believe they had different seating, I am sure they had the 2x3 seating.


I remember riding a few MBB cars in the last few months, and their walking aisles seem much more roomier than the standard flat's are. I don't bump into chairs or step on people's bags or feet in the aisle in the MBB cars, whereas I end up doing that a lot in the other flat's and even the K cars.

User avatar
Gerry6309
Posts: 1484
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:46 pm
Location: Boston

Post by Gerry6309 » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:44 am

Robert Paniagua wrote:Maybe Budd should have gotten the contract for all those cars, 350-389, all 6/1600s and 500/1500s and that would make things simpler.

Budd would have been the high bidder, because the use of stainless steel was optional. Tf it was specified, they would have had a better shot, since that was their specialty.
Gerry. STM/BSRA

The next stop is Washington. Change for Forest Hills Trains on the Winter St. Platform, and Everett Trains on the Summer St. Platform. This is an Ashmont train, change for Braintree at Columbia.

jbvb
Posts: 1327
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:50 pm
Location: Rockingham Co., NH
Contact:

Post by jbvb » Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:47 pm

I may be wrong about the equipment of the excursion (the date was definitely pre-1986), but I am quite sure that most of the MBB cars I occupy most weekdays have 2-2 walkover seats, though most of the walkover mechanism are broken. There are a few MBB cars that have been rebuilt with fixed 2-2 seating. The rest of the fleet has 3-2 fixed seating, and I don't ever recall a Pullman or Bombardier car with walkover seats. Seems clear that the MBTA ordered a different type of car with some idea of using them in longer-distance service.

I can't recall seeing Pullman/Bombardier cab cars, or any toilets, but that doesn't seem right - I'll keep an eye peeled as I commute.

sery2831
Posts: 5138
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:15 pm
Location: Manchester, NH

Post by sery2831 » Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:58 pm

The MBBs were built in 1987, so you were not any of them prior to 1986! Are you confusing these cars with the Boise Budds? These cars had 2x2 walk over seats and large windows.
Moderator: MBTA Rail Operations

Post Reply

Return to “Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA)”