Green Line Expansion Beyond Lechmere

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Green Line Expansion Beyond Lechmere

Postby Guilford Guy » Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:04 am

Okay!
When we get this medford extension will it get its own route name. F line to Medford? Or will it just be an extension of the E. If the E is extended Medford will the C go to Lechmere and maybe the B to north station?
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Postby Epsilon » Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:43 am

Well as I recall there are supposed to be two extensions, one to Union Square and one to West Medford... My guess is that the C and E will be through-routed... though it might make sense to send all the C/E to West Medford and the D/B to Union Square, which would add a lot more service to the north end of the line. (Would probably require a new car order, though)
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Postby PraiseX6 » Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:47 am

I know for a fact trains will still loop at North Station and Gov center - They might expand one of those lines to go to Medford. I always forget does -C/D goes to NS and B goes to gov right? Personally if this expansion happened I would have ALL trains go to North Station and from there allow 2 lines to head over to Medford - The D and E would be fine.
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Postby Arborway » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:08 pm

PraiseX6 wrote: Personally if this expansion happened I would have ALL trains go to North Station and from there allow 2 lines to head over to Medford - The D and E would be fine.


Except that the B Line wouldn't be able to handle looping at North Station. The line is bogged-down as it is.
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Postby PraiseX6 » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:14 pm

B goes to Govern - C goes to NS and D/E Medford - Problem solved :).
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Postby redline43 » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:25 pm

PraiseX6 wrote:B goes to Govern - C goes to NS and D/E Medford - Problem solved .


Uhhh... not really actually. The line to West Medford wouldn't require the double headways of two lines, and the extra cars required to run two lines would be a needless expense for a transit authority in a 8 billion dollar debt.

I think that they will keep the current configuration, but extend either the C or E to Union Square and a new F (looping at Brattle Loop) to West Medford. The B and D are too long and busy to risk any more headway displacement.
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Postby jamesinclair » Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:21 pm

redline43 wrote:
PraiseX6 wrote:t.

I think that they will keep the current configuration, but extend either the C or E to Union Square and a new F (looping at Brattle Loop) to West Medford. The B and D are too long and busy to risk any more headway displacement.



Thats what I want them to do as well.

Keep B at Gvt
D can go to Gvt or North.
C can go to North or Union
E goes to Union

New lines does Medford-Gvt.

Either way, theyll need more cars, and yet no one seems to be ordering any
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Postby StevieC48 » Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:30 pm

[quote="PraiseX6"]I know for a fact trains will still loop at North Station

Cool when did North Station get a loop put back in? LOL :wink:
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Postby subwayguide » Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:29 pm

I think it would be a mistake for West Medford trains to loop at Government Center. First, this prevents a direct connection to the Red and Silver lines. Second, the "core" downtown Green Line segment runs from Govt Ctr to Copley; not including direct service as far as Copley seems like a big mistake becuase it forces an additional and unnecessary transfer for many passengers going into Boston.

From the standpoint of track capacity and car fleet size, running two lines (Riverside/Govt Ctr and West Medford/Govt Ctr) is exactly identical to running a single through line (Riverside/West Medford). I'm assuming here that the trains on these two lines would have the same number of cars.

So the only argument I see for cutting this into two lines would be headway reliability. But since this entire line would be grade-separated (maybe except for one or two crossings north of the Mystic River? but I think the design would make those go away) this through-line, while LONG, wouldn't have the inherent variance seen on the B, C and E lines due to street crossings and traffic lights. So I'd think headways on a Riverside/West Medford line could be kept fairly reliable.

In practice, since the MBTA has historically run C and E farther north than B and D, it seems more likely that C/E would be the extended lines - E to Union Square (since that line needs car storage near the north end of the line, and I guess a car yard would stay near Lechmere?) and that puts C to West Medford. B's always chosen to loop first (presumably because it has the most headway unreliability), so I guess that stays at Government Center. D might be extended to North Station if they need extra capacity beyond Govt, which seems likely.

But I'd rather keep C at North Station, and extend D to West Medford, since that would put the whole grade-separated Green Line on one long route (excepting Union Sq, Prudential and Symphony stations, of course). That would be a neat line.
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Postby PraiseX6 » Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:21 pm

StevieC48 wrote:
PraiseX6 wrote:I know for a fact trains will still loop at North Station

Cool when did North Station get a loop put back in? LOL :wink:


Sigh - You know what I meant by loop buddy.. Please don't - I've had a long day at work man.
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Postby danib62 » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:22 pm

PraiseX6 wrote:I know for a fact trains will still loop at North Station
Wow that's really cool because service to west medford at all isn't really even a fact yet. Care to share your source?
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Postby PraiseX6 » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:25 pm

If there an extension.. I'm almost POSITIVE (95%) they will turn ends at NS - This is from a trusty source (Which I'd rather not name sorry) - The only change would be to send one of the lines that goes to NS to Medford.
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Postby redline43 » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:16 pm

Makes sense to me. The T blew far too much money on the North Station pocket track not to use it.
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Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:25 pm

It may depend on time of day. I'm not sure I'd really want to send D's from Riverside to West Medford during rush hour. The backups from Kenmore to Copley are bad enough as is...there is no way they can throw even more trains down the chute unless you want to see headways on 3 lines get completely hosed with double the D's getting screwed up by the inevitable off-schedule B. OK for after-hours, but it just won't work at peak time.

I don't see a problem with looping West Medford inbound trains at Brattle Loop at rush hour, and maybe running through some other times. It's new service...can those passengers really complain if they have to cross platforms at GC to get to Park? The northeast end of the Green Line has huge excess capacity with the loop and not enough trains anyway because only E's service that end.

Very simple problem that can be solved with the lost art of multiple routings keyed to time of day and clear, consistent announcement policies. If they could do it back in the days of a bazillion different criscrossing trolley lines, why can't they do it in the day of ASA and in-station LED signage.
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Postby PraiseX6 » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:31 pm

(I know I'm going to get bagged for this but) - This fact I just learned today - the bridge after NS to Lechmere (I'm not sure if this includes before / after science park) - Can only allow 3 trains at once due to a weight restriction. This is ALSO a huge factor in deciding what to do.
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