SEPTA & NJT museum

Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

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chuchubob
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Re: SEPTA & NJT museum

Post by chuchubob » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:44 pm

Gorindya wrote:No one said anything about the old brill cars at Fern rock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0dO7X-L8fw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A former SEPTA General Manager sold those museum cars to a scrap dealer in Camden several years ago. An alert SEPTA locomotive engineer (who didn't have a computer) went to City Hall and copied the deeds that showed that they are owned by the City. He took copies of the deeds to the scrapper and told the scrapper that he'd be arrested for receiving stolen property if he touched them. The scrapper thanked him and said he wouldn't show up.
The GM then ordered the museum pieces removed from SEPTA's Fern Rock Yard. The good guy went back to City Hall and copied the deed that showed that the City owns Fern Rock Yard.
That's why they're still there rusting away.

mcgrath618
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Re: SEPTA & NJT museum

Post by mcgrath618 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:45 pm

chuchubob wrote:
Gorindya wrote:No one said anything about the old brill cars at Fern rock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0dO7X-L8fw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A former SEPTA General Manager sold those museum cars to a scrap dealer in Camden several years ago. An alert SEPTA locomotive engineer (who didn't have a computer) went to City Hall and copied the deeds that showed that they are owned by the City. He took copies of the deeds to the scrapper and told the scrapper that he'd be arrested for receiving stolen property if he touched them. The scrapper thanked him and said he wouldn't show up.
The GM then ordered the museum pieces removed from SEPTA's Fern Rock Yard. The good guy went back to City Hall and copied the deed that showed that the City owns Fern Rock Yard.
That's why they're still there rusting away.
What a hero!
If NYC can get theirs running, we should be able to get ours.

Gorindya
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Re: SEPTA & NJT museum

Post by Gorindya » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:08 pm

Here is a better video of the old cars,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snWu4ECGE7g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think there is another set in Patcos Lindenwald yard it would be a shame if these cars r destroyed. Yes I know there are tons of other posts in this forum about them I remember going to a Phillies game as a kid in them

R36 Combine Coach
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Re: SEPTA & NJT museum

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:11 pm

Route 15 could be considered a "heritage line" in a sense, even if the PCCs were fully rebuilt as modern vehicles.
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.

phillyrube
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Re: SEPTA & NJT museum

Post by phillyrube » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:59 am

Didn't see it mentioned here, but Baltimore Streetcar Museum has PCC 2168 running the course. They also have PCC 2187 converted to a work car for line maintenance. They let me drive 2168, really neat!

glennk419
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Re: SEPTA & NJT museum

Post by glennk419 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:36 am

Gorindya wrote:Here is a better video of the old cars,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snWu4ECGE7g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think there is another set in Patcos Lindenwald yard it would be a shame if these cars r destroyed. Yes I know there are tons of other posts in this forum about them I remember going to a Phillies game as a kid in them
Wow, what memories that video brought back...Phillies games, Thanksgiving and Mummers parades...

The cars stored at Lindenwold are Bridge Line cars which are similar to the the BSL cars but with distinctively different car bodies. At least one or two of them are (were) operable. I believe one of the remaining cars at Fern Rock is a former Bridge Line car as well.
Glenn

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Re: SEPTA & NJT museum

Post by green_elite_cab » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:56 am

I think probably the biggest hurdle in having either SEPTA or NJT cars in a museum is that they are seen as "too new", and not "historical" enough.

I think the major problem is that most of these commuter agencies are considered to be "antiseptic", if that makes sense. They have no history, no legend. Even though its equipment and routes originated from those legendary railroads like the PRR, Reading, CNJ and Erie Lackawanna, they did not inherit that legend. In the eyes of the people doing the railroad preservation, the legend died when they were merged into oblivion, and "soulless" government owned companies took over.

I suspect people clung to the GG1 not just because it was a great locomotive, but because it was undeniably PRR no matter what coat of paint you slapped onto it. It was symbolic. If the PRR didn't have the legend it did, the GG1 would just be another vague electric locomotive.

I think this is readily reflected in existing museum collections. To be sure, plenty of former SEPTA and NJ Transit pieces are in museums, but many have specifically been repainted out of their former schemes. The URHS is good example. A large part (maybe even a majority) of their equipment belonged to NJ Transit at some point. However, NONE of them retain NJ Transit markings apart from a heavily vandalized E60 Which I've heard rumors will also be loosing its NJ Transit paint in favor of the Amtrak Phase II stripes it was delivered in. Two locomotives have the NJ DOT blue-bird scheme, but are technically not NJT. Their one NJ Transit E8, they repainted into a completely obscure New York Central experimental scheme, thinking that was more worthy of preservation than its ACTUAL paint scheme. Similarly, the passenger cars aren't painted up for NJT. The URHS has a fleet of Jersey Builders but painted them up in some really bland grey paint.

SEPTA is in an even worse position. First of all, there is very little "SEPTA" equipment retired and available for museums. The diesel stuff retired in the 1980s has all moved on and either been rebuilt, scrapped, or restored to prior owners. I doubt strongly you'd ever be able to convince the owners of the surviving FP7s to paint them up in the SEPTA paint. There are a handful of rotting SEPTA MP54s out there (or did those finally disappear?) and some Reading cars still in SEPTA paint, but I doubt the owners are interested in preserving them that way, given the popularity of the "blueliner". Clearly, no one was interested in the Silverliner II/IIIs. The one SLII set aside is apparently without a clear owner, because I keep hearing different stories about who it belongs to. As far as I can tell, no one is seriously considering (AKA, has the money for) saving that Silverliner III. The Silverliner IVs and Vs are not going anywhere in the near future. There wasn't a whole lot of interest when Amtrak retired its AEM7s and so I doubt the SEPTA AEM7s/ALP44s are going to be popular preservation choices either.


Now to be clear, I don't necessarily agree with the sentiments I outlined above. I think these commuter trains have been the point of contact that most of the public has had with trains for the past 40 years. They may not have corporate legends behind them, but they've been out doing all the same jobs (even more so!) and probably deserve to be remembered.

However, convincing someone in a preservation group that a Silverliner IV will have as much value as some ex PRR diesel that the average person has never encountered, will always be a hard sell.
Elite Juice Jack Modeler.

polybalt
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Re: SEPTA & NJT museum

Post by polybalt » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:25 pm

By the way, there is a Broad Street Brill saved at the Illinois Railway Museum. For many years #55, equipped with trolley poles by the museum, operated one day a year for the July 4th Trolley Pageant. It hasn't run in recent years, I assume for lack of interest.

Here is a video showing the car running in the 2013 pageant. Run-bys of rapid transit equipment, including #55, start at 7:50.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqIQrDBJgjM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Peter Schmidt

R36 Combine Coach
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Re: SEPTA & NJT museum

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:29 pm

green_elite_cab wrote:I think probably the biggest hurdle in having either SEPTA or NJT cars in a museum is that they are seen as "too new", and not "historical" enough. I think this is readily reflected in existing museum collections. To be sure, plenty of former SEPTA and NJ Transit pieces are in museums, but many have specifically been repainted out of their former schemes. The URHS is good example. A large part (maybe even a majority) of their equipment belonged to NJ Transit at some point.

SEPTA is in an even worse position. First of all, there is very little "SEPTA" equipment retired and available for museums. The diesel stuff retired in the 1980s has all moved on and either been rebuilt, scrapped, or restored to prior owners. I doubt strongly you'd ever be able to convince the owners of the surviving FP7s to paint them up in the SEPTA paint. There are a handful of rotting SEPTA MP54s out there (or did those finally disappear?) and some Reading cars still in SEPTA paint, but I doubt the owners are interested in preserving them that way, given the popularity of the "blueliner". Clearly, no one was interested in the Silverliner II/IIIs. The one SLII set aside is apparently without a clear owner, because I keep hearing different stories about who it belongs to.
The Comet I coaches seem to have a high survival rate and even some still run at UTA. Like the Lackawanna electrics, the Comet I coaches have appeared with many private owners, including Whippany. ELDCPS has three Comets restored to their original numbers.

The Silverliner II on the property is 9001 (the RDG class unit) and was supposed to be adopted by Reading Technical.
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.

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